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Fear Of Sluts Walking

Fear Of Sluts Walking

July 06, 2011

The great Indianised Slut Walk - Why are we so divided in our opinion?



Honestly, I had not heard the term ‘slut walk’ until very recently, when suddenly, it was making news the world-over.

For the uninitiated, the slut walk saw its origins in Toronto. Early this year, police constable Michael Sanguinetti, was giving a lecture on safety, and ‘advised women to stop dressing like sluts in order to be safe and not invite trouble’! (P.S: Wiki defines Slut as : ‘.. a pejorative term applied to an individual who is considered to have loose sexual morals or who is sexually promiscuous..’)

Needless to say, this caused an outrage, due to the unequivocal emphasis that society tends to ‘blame the victim’ of a rape, rather than the perpetrator of the crime. To put it simply, our society has a ‘rape culture’, where we are clearly taught ‘do not GET RAPED’ rather than ‘do NOT RAPE’.

It is no secret, that when a woman is raped, she is made to feel guilty and shameful. Her family is derided and scorned, and put through living hell. Rapists usually escape, simply because most often, the crime is not even reported, for fear of further harassment.

Have you ever seen the ‘face’ of a rapist on TV? Never! They are always protected and their honour is kept intact by covering their face with a black cloth. The victim and her family’s pictures however, are splashed as ‘Breaking News’ on EVERY possible TV channel.

If the rapist has assaulted a woman once, the media and police systems rape her name and image in society, many times over!

Now, if that is not bad enough, what makes it worse is that we tend to blame the victim.

‘Why did you go out alone?’ ‘Why did you enter a lonely street at night?’ ‘You wore a low-neck and sleeveless blouse??!! Don’t you think you ‘invited’ it?’

The point here is, no woman ‘invites rape’ or any form of sexual abuse. The ‘slut walk’ slogan ‘however we dress, wherever we go, yes means yes and no means no’ hits the nail on the head.

While the Slut Walk first started in Toronto, it rapidly spread to many other countries, with women walking out in protest marches, sometimes dressed skimpily, to say, that even if they were dressed that way, it does not give a man the right to touch/molest/abuse them in any manner.

When I first heard about the Slut Walk, I though it was a welcome movement. So I was taken aback when in India, opinion was very strongly divided on this topic.

While many women participated in the slut-walk, and many more supported it, some others were completely against it. As I see it, these are the reasons:

1. Slut walk is NOT appropriate in India. We should have a more decent form of expression.

Really? If our society respects women so much and believes that ‘slut’ is derogatory, then how is it that little girls – infants, toddlers, little boys, young women, even grandmothers are raped in our country? We are strongly against the WORD ‘slut’. However we do not mind treating our women like sluts, do we?

Take a look at the rape statistics in India:

A rape happens every 30 minutes or less. There are at least 60 registered cases every single day. Needless to say, this is only a fraction of the actually number of rapes that take place.

This is a social disease, rampant across the world. Be it USA, Africa or India, rape is a very common crime.

So my point is: We do not approve of a slut-walk in India, but we would rather just rape a woman and treat her like a slut instead?!

2. Women who participate in the slut-walk will dress ‘revealingly’ and ‘provoke men’.

What can I say? I can only laugh out loud. Those five deaf and dumb children in a Mumbai shelter – did they dress ‘provocatively’? All those babies and grandmothers who are raped each day, were they wear revealing tops and mini-skirts? How then, did their rapists ‘get provoked’?

The answer is obvious – rape is not invited by a woman or by the way she dresses. So those people who protest against the attire of women in the slut walk are either naive or have double-standards.

Now having said that, I think it is important to note, that the women who did participate in India’s slut walk dressed quite normally and not like their counter-parts abroad. So there!

3. The word ‘slut’ is derogatory, as is the term ‘Slut Walk’.

Again, I have the same question. What are we, as a society against? We do not wish to ‘call a woman a slut’? However, we do not mind treating her like one? If this is not hypocrisy, then what is?

Here, I think it is critical for us to look BEYOND the term ‘slut’ and the name ‘slut walk’ and consider the severe, underlying issue, which is ‘blame the rapist and not the victim’. Sadly, though, many people and sections of media too, are yet to address this.

In my opinion, the term ‘slut’ and ‘slut walk’ is what has drawn all the attention to this topic, in the first place. India reacted quickly, to re-name this as Besharmi morcha’, apparently so that the masses will understand the word and relate to it better. As I see it, it is to appease those sections of society and the media that harped on about the usage of the word ‘slut’.

Call it by any other name, say something rather conservative and ‘non-contentious’ - ‘Women’s protest for the right to dress’ – how many heads do you think THAT sort of name would have turned?

4. The slut-walk only relates to urban areas and not rural ones.

That makes sense. The women who participate in the ‘slut-walk’ and who are ‘fighting for their right’ are mostly from urban areas. Rural women are left out. Agreed. But hey, it is a start, isn’t it?

I would rather see SOME action (even if it represents only one section of society) rather than NONE at all!

5. The Target audience (men) will not be reached, so the slut-walk is futile.

Perhaps that is true. The average testosterone-pumped man on the road may not even hear about it, and even if he does, he might not understand the concept. Even our educated brethren might see this more as entertainment value, rather than a serious issue, because of the ‘name’ and the ‘outfits’ of the women.

However, a movement like this may empower women.

The slut-walk might not stop a man from harassing a woman. But it will make the woman in question bolder and more courageous to react and defend herself, and if possible, even report the crime. If nothing else, the least one hopes, is that the victim stops feeling ashamed or guilty about the way she has dressed.

A lot of our fear is founded on the premise that we as a society have to be practical, dress appropriately, and stay out of trouble. So a radical movement like the ‘slut walk’ that questions this attitude naturally elicits very strong mixed reactions.

Having said that, it will certainly be wonderful to see our society and media give a chance to the Indianised version of the ‘slut walk’ and see if it makes a difference, rather than just slam it. 

56 Comments

  • john
    By
    john
    20.12.11 10:14 PM
    @TYS and do not answer this as you do not piss on web
    "you do take offence where none was meant."

    1.I should say I may be a bad poet but I am not shouting.
    2. So in all I got a perception (as you said ever one is free to have) is:
    you will find no shame in shagging before your mother, standing next to her with astronaut dress with dick next to her butt(No sexual feeling I ever expect from anybody doing so). And you even no have issue when you mother wanna be slut (No offence or abusing you at all [which Ideally you should not feel as per your thought] just for the sake of explaining myself what your perception is)

    3. Your thoughts appears to me sarcastic and conservative:

    pay attention to your (@TYS thought)answer for question [Do you like your mother to call herself a slut ?]:

    "Me being her son will of course cause me to worry about her selection of the word because of the association of the word and for the probable hurdles that might bring but that does not mean that I as a son can forcibly influence her means of expression "

    Why you are having even issue with the word slut??? In no way you are hurdling her Freedom of expression (may be just you have prepared your mind enough to ignore this) but have a concern. Why Cant a women call herself whatever she likes ? [this are close ended question , you need not need to piss, and I am bad poet] As a Son you should not have any issue (not even a thought , as in present case your heart say somewhere its not suiting, I mean some, may be size of bacteria, but yes SOME)

    As you being a son can have issue (some), I being the molester can have multiple degree of some [why the hell she wanna keep only slut as her name? why not angel?(I am thinking as a molester, which I m not) Do she really mean to be the word she has adopted , the real SLUT.....

    and here you go, you cant stop me form thinking (as a matter of freedom of expression)

    What I wanna say is choosing a word is also necessary.

    Regarding your answer: "I will not do (shag before your mother) shagging as because of my conditioning" is something I laughed for hours (I am a bad poet)

    Look dude, This means if someone have good conditioning its morally bad to shag before mother, but if your condition its not at all bad.

    So condition make sense, uhmm ??? [Close ended question , as you do not piss]

    As a free slut supporter (in reality I am oppose to this (only with the word slut and not with movement to stop molestation)) I must say , why cant a men/women with good condition can't have masturbation before her mother, if you are allowing bad conditioned people to do so??? (I am a bad poet)

    Kick hiss ass of the shit who shags before his mother thinking that its not morally wrong.

    Stop Slut Walk, and start "stop the molestor"
  • The NRI
    By
    The NRI
    19.12.11 09:45 PM
    @John, I have been asked to post this message on behalf of Tys. It appears that for the last week or so, there has been a site glitch that it prevents readers leaving a comment against this post (but not others)

    Contact me through the site if you are having similar issues.


    @john : :)

    you do take offence where none was meant.

    wow!

    so here it goes. I guess you need answers and I will try and be as honest as possible but it will be difficult considering that the scenario you represented is not in my realms of experience, hence what ever i say now will be an assumption, based on my current frame of mind .

    1. Do you like word Slut ?

    The word has no relevance. Its just a word. The relevance is what meaning I attach to it. Slut rhymes with nut. Does that help?

    2. Do you like your mother to call herself a slut ?

    How we choose to address ourself is something that does not require another's opinion on it.

    Me being her son will of course cause me to worry about her selection of the word because of the association of the word and for the probable hurdles that might bring but that does not mean that I as a son can forcibly influence her means of expression.

    If she chose that as the word to express herself, then she will have her reasons, and i will respect that.

    3.Do you like your mother wearing slutty dress and man gaze her for assets ?

    Do i like it? I dont know.

    The question perhaps would be if i would have liked it. You see, I don't figure in what my mother likes or dislikes. I shouldn't. Its her life. I guess your enquiry is based on my worry on her safety, in which case, the cause is not her, but rather the observers.

    But yes, I will probably kick anyones teeth in if they lay a hand on her.

    But Iam unable to comprehend this question but i will try. What my mother chooses to wear will be what she chooses to wear. It needs no authorization from my side. I, however , can express my concerns regarding it but those concerns will come from my point of view which will , i have to accept, have no relevance from her point of view.

    4. Do you think dress (consider my interviewer example)make no sense about your perception ?

    Ah! a good question at last!

    Visually a lesser claded woman is more interesting. But I do have to take into account the fact that it is more of my curiosity that is working.

    Let us say that you and I were born in Kerala at around the 17th century. You would have observed that our women didnt cover their breasts. The sight of naked breasts would not have excited us. Since it is common place. Our nature is to be curious, the unfathomable excites us.

    So to answer your question, me being a creature influenced by my surroundings, will of course be affected my a woman. But will I define her by her clothes? No. It will be a woman who I will like looking at, perhaps even arouse me but i will not blame her for my reactions or the induced feelings. Those are mine alone. In an arabic cultural surroundings where iam, men are still aroused by women and they are in 'modest' clothing... so the objectifying of women as sexual arises from the person doing the objectifying, not from the subject...

    the subject like the word , slut, is just is...you give it the frills.

    5. Do you think that a man can stand next to your mom wearing the my designed astronaut dress (if u are not aware of the dress you can buy it from TYS emporium and mind me he will not piss on you) ?

    Considering that your enquiry is about my mother, I will be able to stand next to her butt naked and not feel anything other than being cold.

    6.Do you like to be “the SLUT” ?

    I like being me becoming me. The judgement and definitions and perceptions are yours.

    7. Do you think that shagging before once mother is morally wrong when the person is not thinking any way bad for his/her mother, ? (Its cool or its morally bad)

    There are no moral queries. Moral is a personal guide line. In the suburbs of Mumbai, there are families that lives in close quarters where privacy is not possible. There a couple will have have sex in proximity of their siblings or parents. Its a natural necessity. Where does morals figure in it?

    I may not do it due to my conditioning . It would make me uncomfortable, due to my conditioning. But to claim that my hesitance is due to a higher moral is rather stupid. In my books.

    Of course , it could be different in yours.

    ..............

    There you go. All answered as honestly as I can.

    This dialogue is no longer serving any purpose and I am bored with it...so, off you go.
  • Rajpriya
    By
    Rajpriya
    15.12.11 07:14 PM
    @Writerzblock,

    Thank you for your reply. Yes I would appreciate if can be part of this campaign. Just read this article that appeared in the Daily Mail today. Disgusting UK could harbor these criminals.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2074437/Rapist-asylum-seeker-dumped-victim-rubbish-tip-released-dodging-deportation.html

    Rajpriya
  • Writerzblock
    By
    Writerzblock
    15.12.11 07:01 PM
    @ Rajpriya,

    First of all, thank you for your very constructive comment.

    I completely agree with you when you suggest that the change is serious but needs a different kind of planning and strategy.

    (Kindly note - I was not one of the organizers, I was/am just someone making a meagre contribution by writing this post)

    I really will re-visit this topic another time, and I certainly look forward to a constructive and thought-provoking debate with you!

    Best wishes to you, Sir.
  • Rajpriya
    By
    Rajpriya
    15.12.11 02:47 PM
    Dear Pallavi,

    I am taking the privilege to address you by your first name because depending on your age, you could be my sister my daughter or some one whom I want to respect because you have in your article out lined the problem women are faced with for ages.

    So I will say I am deeply sorry to have hurt your feeling and I really mean that. It was in the spur of the moment things were said. Having said that, I feel when you embark on a mission like stopping the perverts from abusing women you need stronger support than you have today and your own determination because its not just another campaign to sell a seemingly good soap.

    I am one those hard nuts you are trying to give up on and decide to keep out of any future-negotiating table. Today the world is facing so much loss of human lives due people sticking to their guns. I am willing to give those guns if that put you at peace with me.

    My very sincere wish is that God gives you much more determination and true grit to stand and fight against all odds to achieve something that a majority of decent people of this whole world would find good for mankind.

    You need to adjust your methods and to do so need your propaganda machine to play a tune that would make music that’s pleasing and attractive to fill your fan club. I am one of those but at this time the tone does not do what it is supposed to do.

    I live in a country where Hitler once ruled. His ideas were very cruel but his propaganda machinery and his loud and eloquent voice convinced the entire Germany to dance to his tunes because it made good music to all Germans.

    Any goal you want to achieve cannot find supporters overnight. Your venture is a noble one no doubt but you will find many hurdles and I am one. NRI forum is, like the initials say Non Resident Indians. What about the Resident Indian that is an ocean you need to have on your side?

    Many times during my four decades of life in Germany I have travelled to India for weddings and important family functions, I know happenings met my disapproval but I had to close my eyes because I was that odd man who thought I could change the Indian way of life.

    But the change you need in the Indian system is very serious and the sooner its done it’s better. It needs planning and a strategy that is acceptable and implementable without hurting sentiments.

    So I am ready to get back to the negotiating table on your express invitation and I won’t be upset if you think you won’t need my support, I will be a silent force wishing all success on this difficult mission but by working hard could be achieved someday if not tomorrow.

    Rajpriya
  • John
    By
    John
    15.12.11 02:37 PM
    @tys

    You are the coolest guy i have come across on web. you are so woman caring, you are so gentle, you are the smartest and the most maneuver guy i should say. You are social and a man with independent thought.

    I have written what you expect from this discussion and I pray for you that your comments here make some magic and you finally you be successful to make girlfriend (for which you wanna prove your self the so called cool and attempted to prove me a male chauvinist)

    And yeah I pissed on you , I am sorry.


    And what all I can request you guys is to answer below questions:
    (by evaluating this I will come to know were I am wrong)

    1. Do you like word Slut ?
    2. Do you like your mother to call herself a slut ?
    3. Do you like your mother wearing slutty dress and man gaze her for assets ?
    4. Do you think dress (consider my interviewer example)make no sense about your perception ?
    5. Do you think that a man can stand next to your mom wearing the my designed astronaut dress (if u are not aware of the dress you can buy it from TYS emporium and mind me he will not piss on you) ?

    6.Do you like to be "the SLUT" ?

    7. Do you think that shagging before once mother is morally wrong when the person is not thinking any way bad for his/her mother, ? (Its cool or its morally bad)

    and I will be at most thankful if you can just give an answer to above question and I need no more further explnations ?
  • John
    By
    John
    15.12.11 01:57 PM
    @Writerzblock

    Your head is nailed onto this sentence
    "Why don’t you go BEYOND the word slut and understand what the whole movement is about."

    When 17 times I have said (and this is 18th)
    I promote girls and all citizen to stop molestation (Which covers you point >>understand what the whole movement is about).
    and I oppose following with this "Slut walk:
    1. Its first name (now don't say again that I am stuck with word slut, until you agree that your son(its short to write then daughter) call you Dick rather than dad and you are OK with it )

    2. Being slut and wear anything you like (even when it can be offensive for others, and say others need to change)

    That all i got, and I am not suck on on word slut instead i should say why the hell you are stuck on calling it only "slut" ? cant there be any other good name ?
  • John
    By
    John
    15.12.11 01:49 PM
    @rajpriya,
    I apologize.
    Well I think their are some parallel lines in our perception for this.
    I have not read any comments , because I am lazy to do that. I added my first comment as my view without pointing anyone. and then to my surprise I was blamed for suppressing the noble cause.

    I emphasized the word "Carefull" As I was totally not getting you (not in the way of threat but seriously what info you want to deliver as i have not read your previous comment)

    @All
    No one can say me that I myself have not read their previous comment and then ask them to read my own comments(big) complete. Because I started with a view of my own and ALL started analyzing and comment on it(I have no issue with any of your comments)
  • John
    By
    John
    15.12.11 01:38 PM
    @HARRY

    My answer is option "A". with an extra point that even girls should not wear promiscuous dress and their increasing the chance of being molested("anti molestation" program will create awareness among the people who already agree its good, but for bad its like serving the thing they want).
    Nothing much to say, all I have to say is read all my comment ,evaluate it , evaluate the consequence "being slut" has I have cited various example to help you all understand read them because I cant explain further.
  • Writerzblock
    By
    Writerzblock
    15.12.11 02:26 AM
    @ Rajpriya,

    If you read my original post, and my comments, you will find out exactly where you misinterpreted and misquoted me, and made personal references to me.

    Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of time to indulge in a war of words.
  • Rajpriya
    By
    Rajpriya
    15.12.11 12:12 AM
    @Writerzblock,


    I have not prescribed any punishment for women who dressed like sluts.

    “And then assuaging the situation by prescribing harsh punishment?”

    Where have I prescribed harsh punishment for women?

    I am against molestation of women even if they were seen naked. If a woman gets raped for being naked how do you think I could argue with a rapist what he did was wrong? You cannot argue with rapists.

    I have never said anywhere that man has a right to molest a woman if she dresses like slut. I have said the chances are more likely.

    That is the reason why I suggested amputation of his penis so that he would not have a second chance.

    Then if those who walked in Delhi were not dressed like sluts why then was it called a Slutwalk.

    There was no personal attack on you. You happen to be Author of this article. All my questions raised are about this article. You are taking it personal.

    Yes! I have gone beyond the word slut if you have not noticed that by now. I have explained why you should stop using this word slut. By repeatedly using this word you are not letting me get it off my mind.

    You seem to be hell bent on making agree to using the word Slutwalk,

    Just show me an instant where I have twisted words and sentences and if correct I would apologize at once.

    Rajpriya
  • tys
    By
    tys
    15.12.11 12:04 AM
    john : man, take a deep breath...

    now read what i wrote again...

    the only time you are alluded to was once and that was in agreement to a point you are making so hopelessly because your emotions are crowding what you are trying to say...i think everyone here understood your point...

    the remaining of what I wrote is addressed to all of us...i dont see the difference between a molester and a man who stands back to let it happen because the situation and conditions didnt fall within his category of assistance.

    I don't agree with you when you say there are some who deserves it and some who don't. Nobody deserves it. Period.

    Your comments showed a certain amount of prevalent male chauvinism . Atleast you are honest. You are right when you say that man can get away with wearing revealing clothes. But cud that also be since physically a woman cannot rape a man? Maybe the credit for that goes to the woman? Why are you against allowing that freedom to women?

    Of course clothes and adornment is to some extent for the sake of the observer, but does a need to look attractive ( this can be different for different people) or lets go further and say sexy, give someone the right to lay their hands on them?

    Since you ask for an explanation, well, there it is.

    The rest of your response i will ignore because getting into a pissing contest on the net is so pointless. Moreover this issue bigger than you so we will stick to the issue.
  • Writerzblock
    By
    Writerzblock
    14.12.11 11:31 PM
    @ Rajpriya,

    This is frustrating to say the least.

    When have I claimed 'being really upset about harsh punishment for rapist'? That is purely your misinterpretation!! What I clearly said more than once, is that I (like everyone else) am against rape/molestation itself.

    Much as I enjoy a debate, I think we ought to be careful to not misinterpret or misquote people to suit one's convenience.

    Also, refrain from repeating the mistake of throwing personal attacks. There is absolutely no need for you to suggest if the author will dress like a slut and take to the streets. Let us learn to respect each other and be courteous even online.

    Again, read the link I shared about the slutwalk pictures in India, and let us know if you even spotted ONE Indian woman wearing slutty clothes.

    Why don't you go BEYOND the word slut and understand what the whole movement is about.

    And if you cannot, then that is just fine. Each to his own. But do not twist words and sentences and definitely do not go personal. It is a great put-off.
  • Rajpriya
    By
    Rajpriya
    14.12.11 11:16 PM
    @JOHN

    I see that you are a bit upset. Actually, I have elaborated with the following sentence that preceded - “Now wait, be careful buddy”

    I think you missed reading the following sentence correctly

    “I know that a man would be arrested if he goes around with his cock hanging out, for indecent exposure even in a western country and I know it has happened.

    =========================================
    I was not threatening you in any way. But why do you think I would? You have not done any harm to me. If you read the first you would have understood the second.

    And coming to your point that no one is supporting you on Slutwalk read my previous postings:

    Exactly like you I don’t like the term Slutwalk used for a protest against rapists.

    The simple reason: Would any of the NRI people send their wives, daughters, sisters, aunts, nieces, mother-in-laws, or even the Author of this article and her lady supports dress like sluts and take to the streets?

    Then Writerzblock was really upset about harsh punishment for rapists. Why this sympathy and leniency towards a rapist about whom all this fuss is about. They seem to love a rapist by getting upset and are against punishing him.

    While all the women think dressing like slut is the most appropriate way, you and I, could get arrested if we went about with our pricks sticking out for indecent exposure.

    Well! I won’t go into further details because if you read my earlier postings you could see my opinion. If you find you need any clarification please write a message.

    Rajpriya
  • HARRY
    By
    HARRY
    14.12.11 09:46 PM
    HI JOHN

    I am trying to figure out on what you are saying. Is this what you are trying to say ?

    a:- You like the concept but, not the name slutwalk.

    b:- You think the concept is waste of time because of .....

    c:- You think sluts should get raped and molested because the way she dresses or she got loose morals and you don't care about them.

    I have figured out that, acording to you, the girl that is not a slut, you are ok with providing the full force of law, but sluts you don't care about. Is this what you are trying to say ?.

    Just trying to figure you out ....

    HARRY
  • John
    By
    John
    14.12.11 08:35 PM
    Well I am unable to understand the opposition I am getting from many of you , in-spite of the fact I have told several times stop molestation and wearing a slut like cloth do

    not give a right to molester to practice his sins(but increase the probability to you be his 100th target)

    Now you may read my commnet entire or you may not but i humbly reqeust you to read the last comment at least!!!!!!

    Now @tys

    1))))*******"i oppose the current condition where a woman is required to make changes in her clothes or expression because the men cant handle their urges"

    Please clarify what you mean by men here???? in my explanations i have seperated men from molestor.
    I said Molestors can never change their urge, make the men strong (mentally) enough to oppose them.

    So do you still think My vision is incorrect as per your "CLAIM" ??? (I expect an answer, what made you conclude I am supporting man to do not stop their Urge (read my

    entrie comments before writing!!!!))

    2)))))*********"...come to our door steps and the victims are our sister or mother or daughter"

    Please let me know the line where i said dont help the girl who is not your sister or mom.

    Can you calrify your the so called "CLAIM" being imposed against me ??? ( I excpect an answer ???)


    3)))********* "to draw attention to the fact that we are lying thru our teeth... and we are caught up with the word ’slut’"

    I will be really thankfull to help me out in finding my line (which I think i never wrote) were I said supress womens agitation to stop molestation and they muts be molested

    ?????

    Can you prove you CLAIM (and I excpect an answer ???)

    "Caught uo with the word 'slut' ", I am totally amazed that you (TYS and all) are not carried by words.
    Then i wish you should not react in this situations:
    1> When you 9 year old son (u can use duaghter, Son is small to write and " I support girl child"!!!!) comes and say " DAD all my things get F*ucked up"
    2> In a train you find a molester saying girl " Hey SLUT" (and I am in no oppose to that molestor this time !!! as the girl have worn T-Shirt saying "I am a SLUT, Beling SLut

    is cool")

    And you must not say your kid " you should not speak that word" instead you should only focus on "that my kid is really f*cked up(words dont make sense go for the

    intention)"
    Before wrting anything read my LAST POINT

    4))))))******
    "A woman or a man shud be able walk on the street naked if they want and not worry about their physical or mental safety "

    I think certain things that are private should be made private. Let me cite another example:

    Will you call it moral to shag before your mom (certainily imagining different girl)?
    What do you call it freedom of expression or what do you call this ? I am awaiting for an explanation ?
    (My perception: its not at all moral)


    5))))))))"crotchless suit " i can only say you are GAY.(this never means that I am saying one cannot be GAY, but for god sake I am not)

    For @Rajpriya

    I really not getting you ,what you are saying , please elobartae with example. "Now wait, be careful buddy?" Carefull for what ???? seriouly for what ???


    For @All (I mean all who has not got my point)

    I am repeating this for 16th time (I have counted) saying do not molestgirl and pucnihs the Molestor.
    And I repeart for the 4th time girls be juts girls dont be Sluts(this is not my warning nor suggetion thi sis my reqeust and opinion)
    And now the heck you do not undersatnd I think i am ended with all english I got.


    LAST COMMENT (READ IT, ITS A MUST)

    I am being opposed just becausse I am saying something that do not look modern. No second thought is being given and understading the depth of the matter (may be I have added humaro by using penis , slut or my astronaut dress ).
    Just like the 3 monkeys of ghandhiji all shut of their ear and eye when I say Stop "slut" walk and women must not dress like sluts (ignoring my embebded intention of stopping molestation, stopping women becoming sluts and then be a victim of molesters(Invincible , sorry I have to say this but this the only word that gets in your head, that bad guys will always be their, you can supress them but in mind each of one of us are dirty in their on respect(ask you soul, what dirty thing you hide (may be not molestor but evil is within you, afraid to come out)))
  • Rajpriya
    By
    Rajpriya
    14.12.11 11:53 AM
    @John

    I know that a man would be arrested if he goes around with his cock hanging out, for indecent exposure even in a western country and I know it has happened.

    I don't if its different in India? Now wait, be careful buddy?
  • tys
    By
    tys
    14.12.11 11:23 AM
    i oppose the current condition where a woman is required to make changes in her clothes or expression because the men cant handle their urges.

    what you imply, John, is unfortunately the truth in the present circumstances, but to accept that and to run with it despite knowing something is wrong with it, amounts to a certain level of complacency.

    From a man's perspective, that complacency is self serving, so we really dont have the need to rock the boat, until we r faced with its consequences when the acts come to our door steps and the victims are our sister or mother or daughter.

    Personally, Iam aware that we are prone to try different methods to address a problem and more than once we will adapt a working system else where to address an issue. Theres no right or wrong in the system adapted , only in its effectiveness

    In a land , where we , very confidently say that the women are treated like goddess, there are these women screaming in every way possible to draw attention to the fact that we are lying thru our teeth..

    and we are caught up with the word 'slut'

    They are trying to say something. They are trying to let us know that they are facing a threat and that is coming from a faction within us. They are putting themselves out there for us to take a stand, to notice, to change.

    Forget the moral nonsenses and the useless dribbles on a non existing background with disappearing pixels.. just ask yourself...do you seriously feel that theres no problem and that the women are bringing it upon themselves all the troubles they have faced from us?

    I didnt think so.

    A woman or a man shud be able walk on the street naked if they want and not worry about their physical or mental safety . I can understand if the law of the land denies them that right but to assume that the act gives someone the right or even justifies a rape or molestation or lewd attention is criminal. It infringes upon another.

    I think thats what they are trying to say.

    They are asking for respect.

    In your comment you alluded to an example of a man with a crotchless suit but if you read it carefully the perpetuater still appears to be a man...his intentions or his appearence or fashion sense will probably get him a lot of eyeballs or comments but I doubt if any woman is going to rape or molest him...
  • Writerzblock
    By
    Writerzblock
    14.12.11 01:37 AM
    @ John,

    I have indeed read all of your detailed comments, which is why I took the effort to reply point-wise.

    We are obviously on the same platform as far as 'anti molestation' is concerned.

    Even as far as the aim of the movement goes, you and I are saying similar things. Do not molest and do not blame the victim.

    You found the word 'slut' offensive. I am not surprised. Many people in India did! You speak for a lot of people when you indicate that calling this a 'slutwalk' encourages people to have loose morals. I can only say, that is an unfortunate misconception.

    Perhaps the next time the organizers will keep in mind words that will go down well with the Indian psyche.

    Just for one moment, lets go beyond the word 'slut' and 'besharam' and think - Is it 'acceptable' to molest a woman by claiming that she wore inappropriate clothes?

    My guess is, we both have the same answer!

    You say 'change focus from attire to molestation'. John, do you realise that many men actually blame the victim for 'provoking' them? Infact you yourself recommended minor punishment for 'provoking assault', in your first comment!!!!

    This particular movement is aimed at fighting that aspect of molestation.

    And, beg your pardon? Why am I confused?!

    Let me re-word this: You said we need to educate men to fight molestation. I agreed.

    But my point is - is that enough? We live in a country where Keenans and Reubens are few and rare, and that is simply not enough to fight crime against women.

    What we parallely need is a change in mindset! Needless to say, it will not happen overnight. More like decades, perhaps! So instead of sitting back and watching, let's take baby steps.

    And with that, I rest my case.
  • John
    By
    John
    13.12.11 08:41 PM
    @Writerzblock

    >>>>>I never said don't make a difference i said change its name first. Change its focus only on stopping molestation not on wear anything. I said do not wear like sluts as you don't expect my fellow man colleague wearing astronaut dress with my dick hanging out.Besharmi morcha again means be behsharm (means "shameless")which again not appropriate word.
    Be shameless to wear anything you like?
    Will you allow male to wear astronaut dress in a public train??

    Indian women didnot worn those slut like dress just becuase our culture doenot find it appropriate.(I have d etail sdescription for this appropriate word will dicuss someother time) and some of them didnot worn it ,which they usually wear, is beucase they have not particiapted in this. I never ooposed any owmen protesting against her molestation and creating awareness , right away from begining i am saying that oppose molestation , dont supports slut. In India it si not followed the way west has done I am happy. I am haapy the wya west has expressed it if theri culture allows them to do so. (Read my line: I am not saying that the west is Sick and they do luncatic stuffs. West do it their way naturally, becuase that how they are that’s not wrong when they do any such things in their country.)

    So read and understadn each of my point carefully.

    >>>>You do have a point when you say ‘educate good guys to oppose molestation’. Kindly google ‘Reuben Fernandes and Keenan Santos ‘ and you will know what I want to say about this.

    This shows, you yourself is confused why you are supporting the slutwalk. Its never easy to be a hero. First decide you wanna be hero or not. If yes than don't care about whats going to be next.

    But the approach slut walk follow is feed evil and when Satan comes to eat your soul you have the only answer " That is not fare"

    I said that a molester should be accused if jumps on a girls or a slut without her agreement.

    "A movement like Slutwalk was meant to raise awareness. Awareness to NOT BLAME the victim. If it has sparked a debate around the world, and even on this forum, then I think it has achieved something! It has got people thinking."

    I no were siad that slut walk was not started with this intention, but i am sayin it right awya fomr the begining that it embed the idea of being slut (shameless and with loose sex morals). In a Country like India its not morally good to wear revealing cloths which this "Slutwalks carries (carreis means idea of Stop molestation and also be shamless slut)" . Instead I said seclude your word slut and make this cmpain anti mloestation only.(read my all post to get an insight rather than making a view of mine as a cultural big head)


    Look you are not clear with your own thoughts:

    * ‘man should not be blamed for staring at them’ – Nobody is blaming a man for staring at her, but only emphasising that he has no right to touch/molest/rape her.

    Why not I say, why should a man see a girl when she doesnot like it to do? I will really get pissed if someone keeps staring at my mom and SIS. I wll damn bring his eye out.

    And you mean you allow starring ???? I say no man should stare a well dressed woman without she is inteding to do so. He can a look but if he finds that lady is not comfortable than man should live the idea then and their. Thats what gentlemans should do.
  • Writerzblock
    By
    Writerzblock
    13.12.11 05:54 PM
    @ John,

    * The jewellery example was mine, and I have clarified that to Harry as well.

    * 'man should not be blamed for staring at them' - Nobody is blaming a man for staring at her, but only emphasising that he has no right to touch/molest/rape her.

    * Like Tys said, you have a point against the word 'slut' and so did most of India, which is why there was an uproar when the Slutwalk was introduced here. The team reacted quickly and changed the name to 'Besharmi morcha', because apparently the 'indecent' word 'slut' does not exist in our dictionary. I won't go into details as that will spark another heated debate altogether!

    * When Harry suggested you put yourself in their shoes, I believe he meant in the shoes of a man who is looking at a girl who wears a revealing outfit. The point is, even if you do ogle at her or get attracted to her, the chances are perhaps nil, that you actually molest her!! A man who does molest a woman is just using the 'slutty dress' as an excuse. Again, I won't say any more on this subject as it gets repetitive!!

    * You do have a point when you say 'educate good guys to oppose molestation'. Kindly google 'Reuben Fernandes and Keenan Santos ' and you will know what I want to say about this.

    While you are absolutely right, that the 'bad' people aren't going to change, equally so, we cannot just sit back and watch.

    A movement like Slutwalk was meant to raise awareness. Awareness to NOT BLAME the victim. If it has sparked a debate around the world, and even on this forum, then I think it has achieved something! It has got people thinking.

    * One last point - did you actually see the 'slutwalk' in India? Did the participants march out dressed like sluts? Please read this link to find out:

    http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-07-31/people/29835625_1_sexual-violence-sexual-assault-du-student

    To quote one of the participants 'the point we are trying to make here is that just let us be. How does it matter what I wear or how I walk or how I talk? It gives no one a right to pass nasty comments or worse, sexually assault me'.
  • tys
    By
    tys
    13.12.11 02:52 PM
    john: in the midst of your comment, there is a valid point u make. Can i be permitted to frame it so tht you can verify if i hve understood ur point correctly?

    U feel that the name and method of the protest takes away the seriousness of the issue the women are fighting for and moreover they infact pander to the visual delights of the very people they are fighting against.

    Is this what u meant?

    Its a gud point but can i be allowed to throw some counter arguements so that we can together try and understand perhaps another point of view?
  • John
    By
    John
    13.12.11 02:45 PM
    Some pat is missing in my above comments:

    Now for both
    As for your request> to keep myself in other shoe, let me keep myself in the so called sluts of yours (not mine , my sluts i have defined in my previous post)shoe.
    I am a male. I have been given freedom to wear any kind of revealing dress i wanna wear. I have worn a new fashion cloths that cover all my body parts just like an astronaut, except covering my penis.
    I get into a train full of girls. and what i find girl are treating me as if I am untouchable. Had I weared simple jeans and a t-shirt i would have gone next to a gilrl and will have chortle with her and would have taken her contact number. I will have stand next to a girl (Unintentionally from my end) and may be my lower part have touched her(Unintentionally from my end, this can happen in usual crowded places)and she will certinly might not notice this. But to my surprise in my Fashionable astronautic dress with my pennis hanging out (I wanna be the way i want) girls are running away from (may be just to prove fellow colleagues that I am not interested in this dick) When I have no intentions of touching my dick to her.

    Why the heck the reverse i not normal. and wrong. Why I cant reveal my body part.(Believe me I will never do this even people accept being slut is good)


    And if you think go ahead and wear such cloths.
    Then All those scoundrels should not be stopped from roaming nudes in railway subway ( as yeah man and women are equal after all).

    Otherwise punishment should be sever for scoundrels and people must think and wear,as it is how we are projected to others and “Slut walk” should protest for generating awareness among people to stop molestation rather than promoting girls to wear/do not wear anything.
    Slut name conveys to be slut(see its definition), remove it and give it a much better name (but not slut) and only focus on educating good people to oppose molestation rather than facilitating wicked to fulfill their fantasy of making a world full of sluts to molest.

    And you can never ever impose (that is change their idea) your thought on sinfull you can only make good guys to oppose evil.
  • John
    By
    John
    13.12.11 02:31 PM
    @Writerzblock
    @HARRY

    First of all to HARRY:

    I never compared things(jewellary) to people, read my lines carefully:
    "Jewellery is mean for wearing so the ultimate use of Jewellery is to be worn and to be flaunted, "which is not" in case of girls wearing sluttish/(more decent)revealing cloths to show of their assets. "If their intention is so",than man should not be blamed for staring at them."
    Pay attention to "Which is not" and "If their intentions are so" I emphasize further "IF".

    "Writerzblock" is the one who compared the scenario to things and i said it is not making sense and proved it by using his won example.

    Now for both
    As for your request> to keep myself in other sho Then All those scoundrels should not be stopped from roaming nudes in railway subway, as yeah man and women are equal after all).

    Otherwise punishment should be sever for scoundrels and people must think and wear,as it is how we are projected to others and "Slut walk" should protest for generating awareness among people to stop molestation rather than promoting girls to wear/do not wear anything.
    Slut name conveys to be slut(see its definition), remove it and give it a much better name (but not slut) and only focus on educating good people to oppose molestation rather than facilitating wicked to fulfill their fantasy of making a world full of sluts to molest.

    And you can never ever impose (that is change their idea) your thought on sinfull you can only make good guys to oppose evil.
  • Rajpriya
    By
    Rajpriya
    13.12.11 12:24 PM
    Strumming my pain with her fingers?
    Singing my life with her words
    Killing me softly with her song
    Killing me softly with her song?
    Telling my whole life with her words?
    Killing me softly with her song

    I heard she sang a good song?
    I heard she had a style?
    And so I came to see her?
    To listen for a while?
    And there she was this young girl?
    A stranger to my eyes
  • Jaai
    By
    Jaai
    13.12.11 12:05 PM
    We're quite capable of deciding whether and to what degree we want to be influenced by the West, thank you very much.
  • Rajpriya
    By
    Rajpriya
    13.12.11 06:59 AM
    @Writerzblock

    I respect your decision. The last little. in conclusion to the subject most recent:

    “Nevertheless "’ Excuse me!!! Are you actually trying to justify raping/molesting a woman?!! And then assuaging the situation by prescribing harsh punishment?"

    I really could not stop wondering why you contradict your own statement about "Harsh Punishments"?

    About reading past posts and pasting: I am used to watching politicians, say one thing before elections and comparing what they say after. Do you think that’s disrespectful?

    Yes! One cannot turn and twist principles and manifestos. I won't be chasing after any explanation.
  • Writers block
    By
    Writers block
    13.12.11 05:09 AM
    Rajpriya,
    You actually took the trouble to read all my post and comments, and paste excerpts here?!! I am amazed.
    And is your main objection the name slutwalk? Will we even be discussing this topic had I been called anything mundane?
    Honestly I do not find any point in arguing with you on this topic any more. I believe I have said all that I wanted to!
  • Rajpriya
    By
    Rajpriya
    13.12.11 03:42 AM
    @Writerzblock

    I would stick to my theory of disapproval using the name Slutwalk to stop rapists in India.

    It is degrading, disgraceful and disrespectful to drag the Indian women dressed like sluts. to the streets.

    Slutwalk is an action to create a new problem to a very old problem. It’s like Anna Hazare’s movement to stop corruption in India.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    “That was simply brilliant (hilarious too)!!! Spanking is definitely different from hitting, and like you said, no point wasting time arguing a point with a toddler, when a quick little spank can do the job efficiently. However, having said that, you will not want to do this outside India, for risk of being jailed”.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To me it isn't funny and what I call it?

    So you are actually telling me that a western way of jailing a parent for spanking could not be followed in India but you have a point in wasting your time arguing a point with a rapist by Slutwalking? But you know jolly well Toddlers can't take to the streets and you won't protest but would happily approve?

    I think your justice system is flawed by double standards. I am tossing a coin while you say “Heads you win, Tails I lose”?

    Did you not say the following?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "The big questions:
    Why is India afraid of conducting capital punishment for criminals who deserve it? Once an accused has been proved guilty, why do our courts still hesitate to mete out severe punishment? Why is the death sentence so controversial?

    For a country of 1.2 billion people, with more than half the population living BELOW the poverty line, the cost of keeping a criminal alive in prison certainly does pinch. Several years in prison is indeed burden enough on the average tax-payer.
    In comparison, it is interesting to note that the value of a terrorist’s life is far higher than that of an innocent civilian in India.

    Keeping a criminal in prison, may (according to human rights activists), be punishment enough. However, the cost of this exercise is certainly not justified.

    Therefore, just as we worry about the miscarriage of justice, we must also ensure rightful executions are carried out, and justice is awarded".

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well! I will try to gulp that down first: it does refuse go further than my tonsil.

    Then coming to that point about the beautifully shaped bumpers I am surprised you feel Insulted. If you look around to see what others say about J Lo and others exhibit theirs (now what do I say, their butt, arse or ass) my comment would sound like a compliment in admiration.

    Do you think my description is not respectful and that dressing up like slut is?

    I am an average man. I don’t do any thing that a rapist would do. On the other hand if all women looked straight as a tree trunk with a few coconuts hanging 60 feet high, even a pervert won’t want to rape.

    Then about the impact the Slutwalk has had in the world is one thing but that it would stop rapists is another.
  • Writerzblock
    By
    Writerzblock
    13.12.11 03:15 AM
    @ Harry,

    I think you hit the nail on the head with that question. Thank you for that.

    I'm afraid that jewellery example was mine. Perhaps an inappropriate example, but it was the simplest way to explain my point in response to another comment.
  • Writerzblock
    By
    Writerzblock
    13.12.11 03:09 AM
    @ John,

    1. The topic does not warrant offensive language. Not at all.

    2. What you said about 'revealing clothes increasing chances of being molested' - I agree that this is the common perception. However, I believe this is society's way of justifying rape. The outfit of the victim is ONLY AN EXCUSE.

    The whole aim of the slutwalk is this: EVEN if a woman wears revealing clothes, nobody is allowed the right to touch or molest her!!! By suggesting that 'he raped her BECAUSE she dressed sluttily', all we are doing is justifying the heinous crime of rape. Like you yourself said, 'being covered from head-to-toe does not mean you will not be molested'.

    So why are we trying to absolve a man of a crime by blaming the victim, either directly or indirectly?

    3. 'Dressing like a slut' does not give a man the right to molest a woman. A woman wearing a revealing outfit is NOT ASKING to be molested.

    4. I am not favouring kids getting into drugs/alchohol either! When you talk of Indian culture, I am really tempted to go into a longer post on the same, but will refrain for now.

    Like Harry says, do ponder over the question 'will you do it yourself?' and therein you will find answers.
  • HARRY
    By
    HARRY
    12.12.11 10:42 PM
    John
    I think you are still out of line in what you said. I understand your point but you are comapring things with people. Things are not people, and no body deserve to get attacked by this bunch of pervs.

    The question is would you do it your self ? if answer is no then don't justify it for those who wants to commit this offence. That's all I am going to say to you.

    HARRY
  • John
    By
    John
    12.12.11 07:40 PM
    @ Writerzblock
    Good to hear (or read) it that you have read my comment, but may be i have failed to deliver the conception I have in my mind or you have failed to read " Summary of my view", any way let me re-explain it to you.

    >>>>>Your jewellery example is self contradictory:

    1. jewellery is meant to be shown as it has to be sold, do Girls wanted to sell their tits that's why they wanna show them??? (I used offensive word as the topic demands it)
    2. Jewellery is mean for wearing so the ultimate use of Jewellery is to be worn and to be flaunted, which is not in case of girls wearing sluttish/(more decent)revealing cloths to show of their assets. If their intention is so,than man should not be blamed for staring at them.

    >>>>>For Innocent girls:

    I really apologies that I have used the So called Innocent word to make a differences between a girl Slut and a Girl.
    Slut means: "an individual who is considered to have "loose sexual morals", I repeat Loose Sexual moral or who is sexually promiscuous" (already explained many time in this entire post)
    Prostitute: who may have or may not have sex moral , but do sex for her lively hood.
    Girls (Not sluts, the so called innocent gilrs of my explanation): Who carry out their activity as they (morally good or bad ) are but sure shot thye have strong sexual morals, they do not sexually bond with inumerous guys for getting sexual pleasure. She is satified with one MAN (Who in turn is really good at bed) and do not apsire for one more.

    Adding to this point no one in this 20th century (I am not conservative) wanna be called innocent, because the dual meaning to this word (in todays refrecne ) is "Idiot enough to understand worldly matter"
    So if I say a girl be innocent she will interpret that I am taking her as Kid, and how dare i do this when she has grown up? My definition of innocence here is that who is not adopting Slutinism , but can have sex with her borfreind (only one boyfreind and that to in private)

    >>>>>For perception of man (to one man, a woman bikini might be his ultimate fantasy, but to another, even a little girl wearing a frock might ‘provoke’ him.) :
    I even said the same thing, that bad guys gonna be bad guys.(Hope you read it ?? Did you ??) Let me repat my lines:
    Molestation can be due to many reason (women wear any kind of cloth or no cloth),but revealing dress increases the chances (I repeat Increases the chances and it alos measn that it doenot mean that you are covered top to bottom you will not eb molested, but wearing like sluts increases your chance ).

    Wearing a dress mean a lot, take and example:

    You enters a room for an interview and find 2 persons, Perosn A one who is wearing good cloths (Coat paint tie and all that make decent) and the other who is not well dressed (Wearing black leather jackets or perosn B with chains in his neck and percing on his eyebrow and toungue too [may be some weher else too , but i am mentioning only visible parts]).
    Who should be the interviewer ?? No I am not gving the answer you decide your self.

    If your answer is Perosn B , I should say I am sorry and I can't explain you !!
    If your answer is Perosn A ..... so it make sense what you wear. So wearing a dress like sluts can infer that you can be a slut.(Loose Sexual moral).

    I am not concluding wearing good decnet clothing will stop your molestation, but atleast can reduce the chances.


    >>>>> For you claim that our comments are promoting Scoundrels than shwoing compassion for Victim:

    No were I said that a Criminal should be set free if they try to practice their BAUs. But I reqeusted girls that Please do not be sluts , but be girls (for definition of gilrs and slut re-refre my previous definitions)

    >>> > For your cliam (direct or indirect) for me criticising west:

    let me repeat my words and then explain it:

    "I oppose common girls to become sluts just for proving how modern we are! and to prove we are westernized we are more civilized, by licking and vomit the same shit what West is doing, it proves as cool and proves me more liberal and makes me a women of 20th century."

    This I am refring to Indian girls , as this Topic is concerned about India and Slut walk.

    I am not saying that the west is Sick and they do luncatic stuffs. West do it theri way naturally, becuase that how they are that's not wrong when they do any suhc thinsg in their country.
    I have critisized Indian gilrs who try to get western (indeed they are not) by wearing the way they wear, by getting into drugs and achohol (I am not form Shivsena or bajarnag Dal, Rma sena) to show how liberal and cool we are (which in turn is not coolness> cool is a person who dont give f*uck what other thinks and be in his own style, and do not replcate other's style to prove himslef cool). A pot is hard based on the flame it has been ripen, I mean that Indians are prepaired in Indina culture they create disturbance in normal Indian customs by indusing westren Thoughts in Indian Culture (No one should say Indian Culture is Bullshit or wetsren culture is Bullshit).


    >>>> For My Support and Oppose for Slutwalk actual motive :

    I support the part which says to stop molestations.
    I oppose to go and wear like sluts and then somebody(evil) jumps on you and then say "please dont call me slut, you SOB".

    I even strongly feel that the name should be changed from slut walk to something more decent.

    I dont find the Police person in torranto was that wrong. He told those wordds just as a mattre fo explantion and prescription to avoid mishaps. Some freaky overwhelmed feminist founded that word "Slut" refredd to her and he started lifiting voice followed by girls (for a good reason to stop molestation) by sluts (to get socila agreement wear like sluts and so that no one can call them sluts then on) and males who wann shoe themslesve " See girls I am so much caring about you (In mind thta freak is thinking I can have finally a chnace to have a GF)"
  • Writerzblock
    By
    Writerzblock
    12.12.11 04:34 PM
    @ John,

    May I just ask you - what do you mean by 'decent and innocent' girls?

    If a girl covers herself head to toe, then she is 'good and innocent', and men must not rape... However, if she wears sleeveless blouse and shorts, then she is 'bad', and must be punished for provoking a man to molest her?!!

    What seems 'arousing' to one man may be very different from another man. Like I said in response to Rajpriya, to one man, a woman bikini might be his ultimate fantasy, but to another, even a little girl wearing a frock might 'provoke' him.

    So when you say 'decent and innocent', it is extremely subjective. So that CANNOT Be the bar or standard for allowing a man to rape/molest the object of his attraction!

    You are right in one way, you cannot tell a man to 'NOT get excited'. That is but natural. But you certainly can tell him to keep his hands to himself. Literally!
  • Writerzblock
    By
    Writerzblock
    12.12.11 04:23 PM
    @ Rechan,
    I agree with you. The slutwalk might not stop men from commiting crime. But it could spread some awareness. And with regard to subjects like this, any movement forward, even baby steps, are welcome!

    @ Girlsguidetosurvival,
    Just to clarify, my point was not to say that Urban women are the champions of this walk, but to highlight that the awareness created by this particular Slutwalk movement might not extend all the way into rural areas, however, some awareness is better than none at all.
    But you are absolutely right.. about the misconception that the urban elite bring about change!
  • Writerzblock
    By
    Writerzblock
    12.12.11 04:15 PM
    @ Rajpriya,

    The whole aim of the movement was not to 'degrade' sluts, but to say 'EVEN if women dress in a slutty way, it does NOT give a man the right to molest/rape her'.

    To one man, a bikini might seem
    seductive. To another, a simple sari has the same effect. That DOES NOT JUSTIFY him assaulting her.

    HOW CAN YOU BLAME THE WOMAN FOR 'PROVOKING' HIM??

    You said '...Those who go about exhibiting theirs are doing it at their own risk and fine tuning a man’s fantasy provoking him...' Excuse me!!! Are you actually trying to justify raping/molesting a woman?!! And then assuaging the situation by prescribing harsh punishment?

    This is like saying, beautiful jewellery on a display window IS MEANT to be stolen by men who get attracted to it. You are blaming the jewellery for being attractive, rather than the thief for his poor morals!

    As for 'aping the west' as you and many others have said, one of the primary reasons the movement got so many eye-balls the world over is because it was named 'Slutwalk'. Call it by any other name 'Anti-rape walk' , 'No to rape', 'End Molestation'... and the typical reaction would have been 'Oh, another women's protest! What's new about it!!!!'. This topic would not have come up for discussion at all.

    As far as degrading women/the profession of 'prostitution' is concerned, I don't think that was the aim of the movement at all. To the contrary I found your comment '..their beautifully shaped bumpers..' extremely insulting. Is that the 'respectful way' of describing a women?? You actually believe that the slutwalk movement is 'degrading' and 'disrespectful' but your 'comment' isn't!

    The movement was targeted at this exact mindset. What a shame that it seems to have missed the point!

    I have not analysed how much impact the 'Slutwalk' has had. However, going by the sheer publicity - positive AND NEGATIVE, I can say for sure, that it has raised awareness levels the world-over. To me, that is a good enough step.

    Yes, criminals are not going to stop molesting women. Men are still going to stare at what you respectfully referred to as 'bumpers'.

    However, atleast it educates some women that they are 'not to blame' and that they don't have to feel guilty.
  • John
    By
    John
    12.12.11 02:02 PM
    @TYS

    Yeah off course, sure, tell me how to do that ?
  • Rajpriya
    By
    Rajpriya
    12.12.11 10:24 AM
    I love Jerry who wants stop Tom chasing after him. He invents forever-new tricks from Tom ending up smashing on a closed door or window. He seeks the assistance of his buddy the bulldog to stop Tom getting at him. Oh! he's soooooo sweet.

    Its’ always his ideas and he seems to have plenty of them. Gandhi taught us the non-violent Satyagraha that freed us from white man’s supremacy. What disturbs me is why do we borrow ideas like the Slutwalk that is western?

    Unlike Jerry we are being led by tricks thrown at us by the west. Let’s invent our own trick to put off the rapists and trap the rapists – amputate the fxxxxx’s prick. He don’t get a second chance. Why all this race to disgrace the oldest profession after all if legalized that would be, a woman doing her job that she chooses to do for her living.

    A man who needs to ease his biological can pay so that he won’t loose his priced possession. It would also save the reputation of Indian ladies keep their reputation for being what they always have been – Modest – and to be that you need more clothes on.

    I love to continue to see Indian ladies who constantly are conscious of watching their saree border does neither slip away covering their breasts nor their beautifully shaped bumpers. Keep doing that and you are unique, it’s your trick to safeguard what makes the man’s eye wider.

    I like to see a woman showing what I want rather than forcing her to show what she doesn’t want. Those who go about exhibiting theirs are doing it at their own risk and fine tuning a man’s fantasy provoking him. Did I learn that every action has an equivalent opposite reaction long ago?

    Slut or slattern is a pejorative term applied to an individual who is considered to have loose sexual morals or who is sexually promiscuous. The term is generally applied to women and is an insult or offensive term of disparagement, meaning "dirty or slovenly. -Wikipedia

    I love Jerry
  • tys
    By
    tys
    11.12.11 09:43 PM
    @john : cud i please request a day for me to wipe the smirk off my face and respond to u? Thanks.
  • John
    By
    John
    11.12.11 04:08 PM
    Any one who read my comment must read my comment top to bottom.
    If one is ready to read it all , he must be mentally prepared to feel no shame when I use word Breast, Pennis, Sex ,slut, erection, rape .....

    Summary of My view:
    I oppose Slut walk
    I Support awareness rally to stop Molestation.
    I Oppose women wearing dress like sluts.
    I oppose men molesting Decent and innocent girls.
    I believe the rapist should be charged for his rape attempt , but if a girl has worn revealing cloths than even she must be charged may be minor for provoking others.
    I supports sluts to be like sluts.
    I oppose common girls to become sluts just for proving how modern we are! and to prove we are westernized we are more civilized, by licking and vomit the same shit what West is doing, it proves as cool and proves me more liberal and makes me a women of 20th century.
    I support slut and prostitution to an extent, this in turn will make lively hood for sluts and will make scoundrels to try whorehouse rather than raping an innocent.
    I have never and will never molest a girl , nor I will go to any whore house. I respect girl from a true Indian perceptive(God as my mother, Devi as my sister, Radha as my girlfriend , Sita as my wife and devi as any other woman).

    Description:
    I need not need to explain this that a man is excited (may be his penis is erected or not, but some temporary emotional/mental/sexual/behavioral changes takes place within) when he sees a woman with sexually attractive body parts (breast,ass and beautiful face this are the deciding factor by which man decides women to be sexually appropriate for mating).
    Revealing this parts boost the natural mating program inbuilt in every man. SO wearing a dress like slut increase the chance of getting molested.
    Molestation can be due to many reason (women wear any kind of cloth or no cloth),but revealing dress increases the chances.

    So don't go for slut walk but start a campaign with another name which can create an awareness to stop molestation and not support besharmi or to wear like sluts.


    A woman wearing indecent cloths , that enhances her curves and exposes her sexually attractive organs are signal to invoke conscious or unconscious parts of Man's Brain to decide the girl appropriate for matting. You cannot ask a man to change his attitude in this regards.Its his freedom of being natural. IF a man is not attracted by this than I guess their will be no pleasure in sex (from a mans perspective't).
    You can educate a good guy , but u can educate a bad guy (u can make him realize his mistake, but its impossible, as for evil when you cut one head 100 are all their hiding to rise back in future) to follow morals. Bad guy will be keep doing things as according to his misery.
    But the sexually provoking cloth can lead his evil to ignite and can lead to molestation.

    Girls don't be sluts , be just girls.
  • girlsguidetosurvival
    By
    girlsguidetosurvival
    17.08.11 02:06 AM
    4. The slut-walk only relates to urban areas and not rural ones.

    It is such big msconception and self affirmation of urban elite that they bring about the chnage. All through 1990s DG and friends marched street under the banner of MAVJA (Mahila Atyachar Virodhi Jan Andolan) against sexual crmes against women. [Please google the word to learn more.] While middle class respectable women stayed away from these marchs comforably sitting indoors and incessasantly complaining about sexul harassment rural women joined us to make our voice louder.

    The hight of apathy was when we heard these respectable urban women saying that we paid these rural and urban poor to march with us. When a rural woman steps out to march she has too much at stake, she leaves her cattle unattended may be hungry and thursty, her children unsupevised coz' she has no cretch or childcare alternatives.

    The movement against wife beating (domestic violence)in Andra Pradesh was initiated rural women under the banner of Anti Arrack Movement; it was latter highjcked by urban women. Same is the case with Himachal Pradesh and Haryana

    It is high time we knowledged their contributon an participation.

    Peace,
    Desi Girl
  • Rechan
    By
    Rechan
    09.07.11 03:28 PM
    As most studies show men think about sex most of the time. This could be true about animals too (if only one could know for sure). The difference lies in the fact that man is a thinking animal, which makes him less dangerous or maybe more dangerous.
    It is definitely not the way you dress that's the problem, its perception. And only education and exposure to different lifestyles can change perceptions. A 'slutwalk' will definitely give a chance for debates which have very little outcome.
    Mother's sister's and all women folk in general have to deal with their son's. brother's, husbands and boyfriends with more care and concern. The whole of society is in the hands of Women.
    A Society Reflects Its Women!!
    If women are treated with respect it shows. And there is no perfect setting anywhere in the world.
    Rapists are common in the free US as well as the not so free countries of the world.
    Its a vicious cycle (men ill-treat women and get away with it, women rebel and become 'bad'. The 'bad' woman has sons who may grow up hating women.) and we have to apply the breaks before it speeds out of control.
    The cycle will never stop. The speed can be reduced. And yes maybe 'slut walks' can give some advertisement to the whole idea. Aftreall everything around you is learning material.
  • Pallavi
    By
    Pallavi
    08.07.11 11:15 PM
    Baljit,
    I have not travelled much, and yet, I tend to agree with you. In the few countries that I have been to, I have never encountered the kind of daily molestation and eve-teasing that happens in India.
    We do need a slut-walk, don't we!!
    x
  • Baljit
    By
    Baljit
    08.07.11 06:13 PM
    @ A Singh: I agree why are people so worried about language but less woried about the actual action.

    @Sudha: Your simple answer is spot on.

    On a recent trip to India I travelled around for 3 months with my husband, and although I never experienced any "problems" (I was with my husband) every woman I spoke to especially in North India has had some "problem" or another in the street or on the train where a man has bumped into them on purpose, or brushed against them in the train etc... I use the word problem as I am not sure what else to call it, but these instances happen countless times every day.

    I have travelled quite a bit and this only happens in India?
  • Pallavi
    By
    Pallavi
    08.07.11 04:58 PM
    @ A Singh: You hit the nail on the head with your comment: 'People are so het up about words like ’slut’ but they are less aggravated when they witness a girl being molested in the street'. I couldn't agree more with you!!!


    @ Prasanna: Thank you for sharing the link.


    @ Sudha: Just so true!!!! India as a nation, was united in enjoying the gyrations of Sheela and Munni's, but is divided on the use of the word 'slut'. So we 'cultured' folks approve of 'sheela ki JAWAANI' but we find 'slut' degrading to women?!!!!

    Now I don't know whether to laugh or cry!!
  • Pallavi
    By
    Pallavi
    08.07.11 04:52 PM
    @ TYS: That is quite true, it might just fizzle out due to lack of focus on the core issue. Still, it is a protest that has to happen some day!! And you are absolutely right, rape is degrading and humiliating, it has to be severly punished.


    @ Yasmeen: Absolutely! This is an awesome concept and I too am fully for it. I hope the post was not ambiguous!


    @ Wishto Remain Anon: Yes, empowerment begins at home and school. But in many many many cases, it SIMPLY DOES NOT HAPPEN. Therefore, society tries to do this in other ways. Our culture, as it is today, does blame the victim. And yes, in every house, we tell girl children EXPLICITLY that they should be careful and cover-up. But, we NEVER EVER EXPLICITLY tell a boy child that he should not assault a girl. Why is that??? Is that not a wrong message too?

    The problem is, we are not united in this. Even women are against the whole concept. So where do we go from here?!!
  • Sudha
    By
    Sudha
    08.07.11 12:23 PM
    "To put it simply, our society has a ‘rape culture’, where we are clearly taught ‘do not GET RAPED’ rather than ‘do NOT RAPE’. "

    Brilliantly put. I never thought about rape in this way.

    I have a very simple answer as to why India is so divided over the Indian Slut walk — as a nation we are hypocrites about everything, and our over misplaced sense and pride in "Indian culture".
  • umesh derebail
    By
    umesh derebail
    07.07.11 07:09 PM
    I believe the indians have experienced everything from the days of kamasutra, but somehow gone into the shell, harlot street was there in Vijaynagar empire.
  • Prasanna Raghavan
    By
    Prasanna Raghavan
    07.07.11 04:37 PM
    This is a shock treatment to those who take India's rape culture as a consequence to the changing life style of Indian women, but not permanent cure.

    Following is my contribution.

    http://weddingsandmarriages.blogspot.com/2011/06/slut-march-india-too-is-bracing-for-it.html
  • A Singh
    By
    A Singh
    07.07.11 04:33 AM
    @Anamika

    I stand by my comments. I wanted to illustrate, as suggested in the article, that some people seem to be more bothered by words and language that are offensive to them, than the more important and very offensive acts of sexual assault against a large number Indian women on a daily basis right across the country.

    I am not sure what you mean by my comment being too harsh. You have also taken my comments out of context. I was not wishing this on 'wishto' but merely pointing out that if you are a regular victim of abuse you may be less concerned that a protest movement is named Slut Walk, than 'wishto' appears to be.

    You state that 'the best arguments happen only when you are unemotional'. In my view the Indian population at large have been quite 'unemotional' in doing much about sexual assault against women. Not only is it rife, it appears to be on the rise, particularly in metros like Delhi. Rather people need to get a bit more emotional about this.

    The term Slut Walk may be deliberately provocative. You might suggest this is a bad thing. I would disagree. Maybe provocation will finally make a difference to an endemic problem that should have been dealt with effectively a long time ago.

    btw this is a issue that does not directly affect me as a man. However, it is one I feel very strongly about.
  • anamika
    By
    anamika
    07.07.11 03:43 AM
    a singh ....your comment on "wish to remain anonymous" being a young girl regularly groped are way too harsh. the best arguments happen only when you are unemotional.
  • A Singh
    By
    A Singh
    06.07.11 09:17 PM
    @Wishto

    Why should women have to hire 'marketing experts' (not quite sure what that means), just to pacify some prudish people. People are so het up about words like 'slut' but they are less aggravated when they witness a girl being molested in the street to the point that they are prepared to intervene.

    Men should change THEIR behaviour.

    To requote you.

    "Perhaps is it the way they’re (boys) raised or they’re not prepared for things in life by their parents. I do think society is at fault here — and parents for the most part do not know how to prepare their boy child for the world."

    Slut walk may be a desperate move. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I am unsure of your gender or location, but maybe your views would be different if you were a young girl being regularly groped and verbally assaulted every day of the week.
  • Wishto RemainAnonymous
    By
    Wishto RemainAnonymous
    06.07.11 09:03 PM
    I want to add another thought - there are many roads to empowerment or girls/women and clamping down on indecency by men.

    Pursuing different mechanisms towards the same end goals will probably be more fruitful than taking 1 route.

    Maybe encourage a promote the female day - a family event kind of like mother's and father's day, something society promotes and is not restricted only to thoughtful parents.
  • Wishto RemainAnonymous
    By
    Wishto RemainAnonymous
    06.07.11 08:56 PM
    What I say below has nothing to do with rape/rapists but more to do with the comment by the author about empowering women.

    I think empowerment begins at home and at school. Why is that so many girl children are more naive compared to similarly aged boy children say in college, work etc. I'm not saying women should drop their womanhood and whatever it comprises but rather we look to other ways of empowerment.

    Perhaps is it the way they're raised or they're not prepared for things in life by their parents. I do think society is at fault here -- and parents for the most part do not know how to prepare their girl child for the world.

    It's honestly very sad to say that slut walks are the way to empower the girl child - is that the right message to be sending your to girl child.

    As for men not understanding or getting the message - maybe feminists need to hire marketing experts instead of the in your face mechanisms to get the message across to the men who refuse to acknowledge the ask of common decency.

    Society needs to understand and discuss the needs of empowerment of the girl child in "normal" ways. Slut walks are almost a last resort of sorts - it's a desperate move, again not the message you want to give your girl child.
  • yasmeen
    By
    yasmeen
    06.07.11 07:07 PM
    "4. The slut-walk only relates to urban areas and not rural ones." quoting you on this point - the "slut walk" concept may be an urban one, but its implications and reach cover the rural women too. in fact, these women need a platform more than anyone else, simply due to the nature of their environment, background and the village justice system. more untold rapes occur in the rural areas, most of them by the very keepers of the law and headmen of the village! as a woman, i think this is an awesome concept and must be kept going, no matter what some prissy matron sitting in her ivory tower has to say!
  • tys
    By
    tys
    06.07.11 09:31 AM
    i for one, am all for this..my only worry was that we will spend have the energy defining the movement than what it is about...

    i read somewhere that a true civilized society is where a woman can walk naked and not get raped or molested or harassed in anyway...be it becoz the law is assured to protect them or that the society recognizes individual choices that does not threaten their own choices or rights...

    but no matter what anyone says to justify or dilute or divert the accusation of sexual abuses against any gender, it still remains an act of violence and degradation and humiliation...

    an act worthy of being punished to fullest extent of human laws..

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