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A Race Apart

A Race Apart

June 02, 2011

Racism : An Indian's birth right.

I know we are a great nation.

I mean, we have not invaded any country for the last 100,000 years. Of course this might have been primarily due to the fact that it took a lot of invasion in the first place to create India. Before that we were busy fighting each other. So it’s more or less a chicken and egg thing.

It is the birthplace of chess, algebra, trigonometry, calculus, snake and ladder, bride burning, honor killing, Shakeela chechi, Jainism and Buddhism

Not bad for a country that has one hell of a history.

Come on. Who doesn’t like to be an Indian?

I mean really.

We like it so much that we actually want everyone else out there to be like us. Which they are not. We let them know that, don’t we?

Come on, admit it, aren’t we a tad bit racist?

Consider this : How do you talk about that Afro American friend of your daughter Leela to your kitty party friends?

"Have I mentioned Leela's friend Will.I.Am?"

Or will it go something like,

"Did I mention that Leela has a negro friend?"

"Do you know that Divya’s son Prem is going around with a ghora?"

That’s what I love about being an Indian. We are placed correctly to be racist and get away with it. We are brown and were colonized. That’s like having your cake and eating it too.

This gives us the privilege of stripping the madhama (white women in mallu lingo) with our eyes while she tries to become lobster red at Kovalam beach or gawk like a moron at the white couple holding hands at the railway station. Don’t forget we also get to pass remarks on their hygiene, sexual habits, physical assets or lack of it in their presence to our friends, without risking losing a limb. That’s kind of nice.

Indian racism towards white skin is a weird thing. It’s like we can’t make up our mind what to do.

Do we hate them or do we suck up to them?

As an Indian, I may not have to worry about having people coming and touching me to see if I am real but I  can be assured of being treated like a second class citizen if I go to any establishment with a white colleague. Then you will experience racism in reverse.

Only in India. Love it.

You want to feel better about your self in India? Have black friends.

I don’t mean the darker skinned, moisturized with the fairness cream, dreaming of fairer days, Indians. I am talking of blacks.

No prizes for guessing who is going to be on the far end of the service spectrum if you walk into an establishment with your black and white friends.

What I love about India is the racism toward ourselves. We have our chinkies, madrassies, malabaries, sardarjis, cut surds ( what the hell is that?), nazrani...oh what the hell, you fill the rest in....

Lets face it, if the other is not mine, then the other should know mine is better. My food is better. My culture is better than yours. My language is more poetic. My women are prettier. In short we are better.

You, however, are a joke. I can't hit you because the chances are you will beat me to a pulp, so I will just make you look ridiculous. I will laugh at your tastes, your looks, your funny accents, the way your mother dresses. Because my confidence in what is mine is so big, I will wage a coward's war on you, as it will make me feel better. After all, I am so much better than you.

It is endearing how we are so eager to be sensitive to slights from another race especially if the color of their skin is white but how we behave to them in our own country is, of course, irrelevant. After all, we have been racially discriminated for so long that us being racial is acceptable, isn’t it? It’s our birth right.

We have centuries of practice in the art of racism. We have divided, jeered, segregated, and killed, in the name of caste, religion, class, gender, color, language, sexual preference and place of birth. We have been doing this forever. Racism is in our blood.

I bet my red blood corpuscles are constantly teasing my white blood corpuscles, with their little red cellular face smeared in Fair and Lovely whitening cream.

I am all for brotherhood of mankind and other such fantasies. But its just plain weird when we get offended by something we ourselves are guilty of. I am sure theres a word for this.

Hypocrisy? 

105 Comments

  • Khadija
    By
    Khadija
    19.04.13 11:02 AM
    SO funny! And creative! :D
  • I hate indians
    By
    I hate indians
    06.04.13 11:24 PM
    I'm a white guy and I 100% hate god damn indians they are so judgemental racist and nosey and are always gawking like if they are gay or something. Indians have along way to go to be evolved civilized creatures
  • I hate indians
    By
    I hate indians
    06.04.13 11:23 PM
    I'm a white guy and I 100% hate god damn indians they are so judgemental racist and nosey and are always gawking like if they are gay or something. Idians have along way to go to be evolved civilized creatures
  • Rajpriya
    By
    Rajpriya
    22.03.13 10:04 PM
    @Tara,

    You could just about amuse your self at their expense. They are certainly letting out their frustration. They are the types I call Toxic Characters. You should avoid eye contact with those types. Don’t let yourself be provoked.

    They exhibit a significant lack of personality development. Do not respond with unpleasant confrontations that would only aggravate and in some circumstances result in you being harmed. These people are only strong when they are in numbers. Individually they are cowards.

    Avoiding confrontation is therefore the better way than constantly being reminded of this feeling of helplessness and losing of control of your self.

    If you think you are the better person:

    Pay attention to your thoughts, for they become your words.
    Watch your words, for they become your actions.
    Pay attention to your actions, for they become your habits.
    Watch your habits, for they become your character.
    Pay attention to your character, for it becomes your fate.
  • Tara
    By
    Tara
    19.03.13 03:22 AM
    What the south Asians posted to their facebook pages or"liked" and jokes they and to each other actually shocked me. MORE shocking is that they have no feelings that this is even wrong morally.
    I now know the names they say to each other about white women and have confronted them when I am out and they are staring at me talking. By the way I am almost 40 yrs old, do not wear mini skirts or skimpy clothing, I am out with my children all the time. So south asian women/men (strangers) in a group calling me a white whore is not at all called for, in fact I could go to the RCMP and make a complaint. That is racial harassment here in Canada people are not allowed to go calling people racist names, it is a crime. So if you are in Surrey B.C. and see a lady out not of your culture out with her kids, don't think making comments not in English will help you to commit racial hate speech. It doesn't!!!
  • Tara
    By
    Tara
    19.03.13 03:01 AM
    I was raised in a small town in Canada. I just didn't have any racist friends or family. My best friend was Asian, my cousins best friend was black. My parents would NEVER have told me to only date white men. We didn't have many south Asian immigrants in my town. Only one family, they home schooled their kids and they never bothered to associate with others. In fact if we talked to the kids they would tell us to piss off(we were kids ourselves). They would stare rudely when they saw any of us and whisper amongst themselves. Not good for relationship. I have made friends with a few South Asian immigrants since this time, they were men and VERY NEW to the country. I must say I have NEVER met more RACIST people or sexist. Shocking to hear such racist things from a person. THIS is not accepted among any people I know. I have spent time with Asian Canadian people, African Canadian, First Nation Canadians. Mixed races and white people. I HAVE never HEARD such racism that comes out of south Asian mouths. No race is free from their hate speech. It is actually shameful that hey behave this way. It is barbaric and backwards. These are not illiterate people, these people have higher education and are well traveled. What they were saying I would expect from a KKK member or some person that did not attend schooling and lived in the woods inbreeding with each other.. "White" people have had the bad reputation for being the most racist, I can say that award goes to the South Asians. Shameful behaviour. Time to get with program it is 2013 not 1713. Human evolution is moving in the direction that cultures, races and skin colour is all mixed. Don't teach your children a practice of racism, they will be looked at as the ignorant and simple by most people in the western countries. It is bad enough that people are starting to call India "Rapeistan"
    Don't add being the biggest racists to that list.
  • Philipe
    By
    Philipe
    10.02.13 03:52 AM
    Westerners have used the term Aryan and Dravidian to divide Indian people and they got there. What is surpenat is that it is Dravidian India the most advanced economically,India would has been able to prove that it is not because you have dark skin you are less intelligent or less educated, the Dravidians invented yoga, kung fu, bouhda is a Dravidian prince, zero, medicine where they are the best. Indians let their shape Western history damage
  • ashinim
    By
    ashinim
    30.10.12 12:35 PM
    I agree with you at many points....my mother is a christain tamil (dark skin) and father a bengali brahmin(white)....when i was born, i was in a elite school in north India where there were few or none dark-skinned people.....i faced discrimination because of my dark skin which i hardly noticed when i was in south India.....

    plus u know lord Krishna is shown purple coz originally his skin is very dark and people didnt wanted to show dark skin and wanted to make him look devine...even gods faced racism (just exagerating, i think)...
  • tys
    By
    tys
    25.10.12 03:15 PM
    ben, read that para again...but i applaud your keen observation and to the point opinion.
  • Ben
    By
    Ben
    25.10.12 11:33 AM
    I think India as a country formed only about 65 years ago.So the first statement "India not invaded any country for the last 100,000 years" is stupidity.
  • Atheist Indian
    By
    Atheist Indian
    09.04.12 03:58 PM
    I also admit that I really dislike how our women are objectified and targeted for eve teasing in the country, but again, so are desi women. So I think that part is a gender issue, not a xenophobic one.
  • Atheist Indian
    By
    Atheist Indian
    09.04.12 03:56 PM
    Mohit Gupta, the commenter has some very good arguments. As someone who lived in three (non-western) countries and spent time in a number of others, India is probably one of the least racist developing countries. What a lot of Indians believe is 'racist' is actually xenophobia and prejudice. Yes, it is a bad thing and it has to be countered, but blaming Indians for being 'racist' is going overboard.

    As an 'Indian' from the South East Asian region, I had to deal with a lot of stereotypes and prejudices living in the mainland. I'll admit, I really resented that and even developed a lot of prejudices against desi people in the process but as it may, no Indian went out of his/her way to be hostile to me (apart from the occasional 'chinki' or 'Japani' remark, which I find a laugh these days, more than anything).

    In Central Asia or Eastern Europe on the other hand, people would actively target 'foreign' looking people for violent attacks. The same with Africa as well. For all those who lament about how Indians treat Africans, have any of you ACTUALLY visited an African country? It is no tolerant, racially egalitarian paradise, mind you.
  • Bhadra
    By
    Bhadra
    22.02.12 05:32 PM
    My father says that I can marry anyone who is not black, muslim or chinese. You guys have a black chinese muslim guy to introduce me to? :P
  • A Singh
    By
    A Singh
    12.02.12 12:31 AM
    @ Mohit Gupta - Amen to that!
  • Rajpriya
    By
    Rajpriya
    11.02.12 11:46 AM
    @The Tami Guy

    I agree with you 99%. You did everything to build the tiny speck into a shining Metropolis. When your parents left for Singapore you were filling a vacuum that the local Singaporeans or Chinese left for you “Hard Work” “Cheap Labor”. You toiled till you bled and sweat. It’s true that sweat never smells sweet.

    I am proud of you that you and your forefathers helped build a nation and in the end you could never call your own. You say took all what you can: star businesses, built temples, mosques, churches, became doctors, lawyers and one of you was president until recently. Wasn’t that a huge success? Weren’t you one of them?

    I live in Germany but I never can boast I helped build that nation. I only enjoyed the economic boom of a country I made my second home like all other the NRI’s and other migrants scattered everywhere in the world. I was able to find employment four decades ago based only on my professional education.

    Nevertheless had always to keep abreast of rapid technological advancement to be in business even after I retired with a good German pension. Fortunately my children too well educated are quite comfortable in house we own for which I laid the foundation not build Germany.

    My elder son runs a successful advertising agency and 90% all his customers are Germans and the rest a mixture of Dutch, Turks, Portuguese a few Indian restaurant owners. Never ever do we get mixed up in racial hatred towards any one who is successful. My second son an IT graduate passed out from a German university.

    I can never ever feel I am German even though naturalized like most Turks who were imported into Germany after the last world war. While Turks did all the dirty work like you they are looked down upon while the Germans always filled the upper echelons.

    There are Turks who have become members of parliament but are quite far away from ever becoming the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany. Even Germans often refer to me as an “Inder” because of my (golden LOL!) brown skin color meaning an Indian. Take for instance Jamaicans who call all Indians as "Coolies".

    Where I disagree with you is the 1% you failed to concentrate on. You left a serious vacuum that the NRI’s could easily fill. Either you learn their business to beat them in their own game or get left out and find the time to spend writing a long answer about your frustration. Wake up and move on I am on your side.
  • Mohit Gupta
    By
    Mohit Gupta
    11.02.12 11:25 AM
    The Tamil Guy ,

    Isn't it ironic that in whole of your articles you boast of you contribution in building the Singapore and still you don't call yourself Singaporean but "The Tamil Guy". Though you deny your Indian identity but proudly show-off your Tamil identity.

    Though you said that grandparents left India for they were not treated as EQUAL but still you are cursing NRIs who go to Singapore for their livelihood.

    Yeah, I am smelling hypocrisy in your post. If you are so proud of the fight you had with the odd circumstances then why your grandparents didn't fight in India itself and why did they flee to Singapore?

    And please don't behave like smarty-pants. The truth is that Indian tamils didn't go to Singapore on their wishes but they were sent to that place by British. So most of your arguments and complains are improper, misdirected and flawed.

    And this is a very small world now. If Indians are outsmarting native Singaporean and getting good packages then what is their fault and why it hurt you. After all companies are not charity organization. They will hire only the best talent.

    Irony is that in the same breath you blame Indians for their lack of street-smartness and then you are jealous because they are getting good packages because of their talent. So its cleat who is street-smart.

    You should sincerely and seriously think about yourself that how and why Indians are outsmarting people in your own country rather than venting your frustration here on a completely irrelevant Blog.

    Cheers..!
  • The tamil guy
    By
    The tamil guy
    11.02.12 04:22 AM
    Im tamil, my people have been called darkies, natives, "black". Treated as second class citizens in our own country, considered lower chaste, told that we are backwards.

    So my grandparents left for singapore, for decades we are called "kleng kia".. made fun of everyday by the chinese majority, told we are smelly, told we are only good for manual labour and serving food.

    so what do we do?, we embrace it. we play along with what they call us, we laugh it off. we take what we can get and star businesses, build temples, mosques, churches, become doctors, lawyers and one of us was president untill recently.

    Could we have done this in the motherland?... very unlikely. We helped build a nation, made it strong with blood sweat and toil. We had nothing, now we are among the most economically important countries in asia.

    Now you "nri's" come here, you bring your arrogance, your warped ideas of racism and a general lack of street smarts. Do we resent it?, totally.

    It hurts my friend, to see a person fresh off the boat come here and think they own the place.

    Worse still our government now thinks its a good idea as indian talent is cheap and considered knowledgeable due to education standards in india.

    The result of all this, your average singaporean can rarely make a crack into the it industry. It companies consider their networking/software/security teams as mini "little India's". Your average singaporean as little more than desktop support or technicians.

    While indian expats enjoy bonuses, expat packages and company accomodation. your average singaporean cant buy a flat because it costs too much, there is hardly enough in our budget for food and oil on a daily basis. What we save is meagre and is not enough for a proper retirement. In fact they keep raising the retirement age, its now 70.

    Every day,i see more of you. Every day i see the country that we helped build become less and less ours.

    The worse part is that most who come here generally disrespect us and treat us as lessers . They also do it to the native chinese and malays too.

    No my friend, i am not "indian". Your motherland is no longer mine. We built this tiny speck into a shining metropolis, dealt with racism and brushed it off.

    we just want to ask you nri's a few questions.

    what will you do with the money you earn here?

    will you take it back home or will you stay and fight like us?.

    why do so many of you act so arrogant and then complain when we take potshots at you. is it because you are some special snowflake?

    Why do you complain instead of trying to fight for equality and help build your new home like us?
  • Writerzblock
    By
    Writerzblock
    31.01.12 12:46 AM
    '......racist with a heart so there is some hope.......'

    - I am too stunned to actually comment anything!! Can I just say 'LOL'!!
  • ? Love
    By
    ? Love
    30.01.12 11:51 PM
    @RB. Can u explain something to me... How in the world can u be RACIST with a HEART as you so stated....REALLY! I will wait for your reply. I must hear this!
  • Rajpriya
    By
    Rajpriya
    30.01.12 10:15 AM
    @joeyg and RB

    I don’t think all Indians hate black people and all black people don’t like Indians. Do Indians have to marry black women to prove they are not racist?

    African history is full of tribal wars and internal conflicts to this day. African black people could not colonize any country because the only two African countries that were not colonized were Ethiopia and Liberia as far as I know.

    You have more serious issues in Africa than Indian guys marrying black women. Regularly reading information of starving children in famines and news of billions in aid to Africa by generous donor countries you don’t seem to see the larger picture. Did you ever think of sorting out those problems of black people created by black people?

    I had quite a few black African friends when I studied in London. Those were the days there was no such thing called email. So just lost contact.
  • RB
    By
    RB
    30.01.12 03:23 AM
    The bottom line is: Indians don't like to marry black, but are not completely against the idea of marry whites or people from the middle east. Indians will never ban marriage with black because they know its wrong, unjustified, and against human dignity. Its just a preference. Indians maybe racist but they have time for the genocidal slaving racist that whites have propensity for, Indians know such violence is bad karma. Indians are racist with a heart so there is some hope.
  • joeyg
    By
    joeyg
    29.01.12 09:26 AM
    its amazing Indians hate black people, as if black people invaded and colonized you... oh wait they didn't! maybe they should have and then you would appreciate them like you do the whites.. oh well ! carry on
  • ? Love
    By
    ? Love
    28.01.12 12:23 AM
    I'm a Black American I am GAY I have an Indian Partner We have been together for 25 yrs.. , Black, Indian, and White are Racist.. No one has said anything to our faces ( because I will knock them out!) if u saw us on the street u could not tell we are Gay...(we both are VERY MASCULINE) but some posters here use such RACIST words Chink, @Lindo u are the most racist piece of Well u know... U are from South Africa and u are Black so u should know better... I have never understood how one person of color can use such hateful words towards another. Dirty stinky ect. Everyone stinks... I have been around Africans where I have to hold my breath. I've been on airlines where I thought I would pass out...@Lindo u are the most vile racist I have ever come across... Lindo u need to be educated!
  • Mohit Gupta
    By
    Mohit Gupta
    27.01.12 11:37 AM
    @ Amit Singh and GooGooDolls,

    Ok, India and Indians are Racist. Now what ? Should they be bombed ? Or be nuked? Or you suggest any other remedy.

    Irony is that how can someone, who is talking against racism, would use the word 'CHINK' ?..

    Indians are racist, be happy !
  • A Singh
    By
    A Singh
    26.01.12 09:01 PM
    @GooGooDolls you speak some truth. I have stated on this site before about how many Indian people are specifically racist towards black people, in a way that differs to how they look to other races / colours.

    There are many reasons for this. Firstly, how can a race (Indians) look at blacks in a positive light when they are themselves deeply self conscious and self hating about their own skin tone. A lot of Indian men would not entertain marrying a darker Indian girl (must think of the kids!) let alone a black woman.

    There is also a (mis)perception that black people are less intelligent and less civilised. Unfortunately this is not a view shared only by Indians but by whites and many other asian races. Ironically I grew up in the UK with a lot of Kenyan Indians and they looked down upon other Indians as less educated, less cultured and less sophisticated. Admittedly India was more of a developing country back then. The Kenyans were were very patriotic in their African-ness and you could offend them less by insulting a female relative than you could by referring to them as Indians.

    However, this is a much more complex issue and you must accept that blacks can also be a self hating and racist (against other blacks too) community.

    On another note it probably did not help your cause to call out someone else on their prejudice and use the word 'Chink' in your response!
  • Rajpriya
    By
    Rajpriya
    26.01.12 07:20 PM
    @GooGooDolls

    There are racists everywhere in the world. I don’t label anyone as a racist. You are talking so much about black color, white color and brown color. Have I said anything against mixed marriages? I don’t recognize any one known to me by their skin color. Why should any thing you do be hard on me?

    Was I against your friend marrying any one he wants to, for me to start showing any love to him? I don’t understand the Cape Town connection?

    I wish you all the best with your lady. Why don’t you look at it this way? May be there aren’t many African descent ladies who want to get married to Indian guys. I am really proud of you for being an exception to all other brown guys.

    Send me an invitation. If time permits I will be at your wedding.
  • GooGooDolls
    By
    GooGooDolls
    26.01.12 03:01 PM
    Jeez Rajpriya! Show that man some love. I am sorry mate, i know this would have been hard on you. But this is not why i am here. I live in Capetown and i have been in relationship with an African descent woman. And this is kinda cool when i noticed indians are big time Racist, lol, sorry but i felt this in my recent past and before that i never had any overwhelming feeling of being some Indian and shit, so i am unbiased in my comments.

    Every relative and friend in India said to me why not marrying a white girl? one lil bro of mine has this dream of going to some western country and marry a white girl.I don't understand the hype associated with a white girl in indians' head. An Indian friend of mine asked me to tell him a single couple with a brown man and a black woman that i have seen. And this was really intereting when i started to observe, i saw white men with black women and black men with white women. Even asian guys (Chinks) with white and black women too. But i never found a single couple with a brown man and a black woman.This is a stark revelation. Indians don't marry Blacks! And that is one hell of a truth. They always marry Whites. So i am the only one doing this, marrying an African Descent girl. lol. And trust me i am proud of myself. I know not an Indian thing to do! ;)
  • Rajpriya
    By
    Rajpriya
    26.01.12 04:25 AM
    @Amit Singh

    You are right. I don't think I will ever change. I will remain what I was born to be even if I try hard to be what I am not, "a foreigner in India"

    Its too late to change my attitude because I have lived with it too long
    and you are one of those rare cases who finds it wrong.
  • Amit Singh
    By
    Amit Singh
    26.01.12 02:04 AM
    @ Rajpriya : You are Racist too. and check twitter, and learn about the 'Land of always Outraged'. Change your attitude.
  • rajpriya
    By
    rajpriya
    25.01.12 07:59 AM
    @Amit Singh

    It’s very unfortunate you met the only Indian who used the word F*****g at Delhi Airport. I see this word being used in NRI many times but never heard it come from the mouth of any Indian on my many visits to India.

    Even though you say you live in Montreal, may be somehow you are still looking like a Bihari for someone one to point out so accurately? I was lucky I bumped into people like Ravi Sastri, captain cool Arjuna Ranatunga and most recently Vijay Amritraj and his two sons Vikram and Prakash who were all so pleasant to talk to during my flights to and from India.

    Good thing they never asked me my nationality. I can’t understand what you mean by being treated like an animal? Do you look or behave like one?

    Living in a small village among farmers in Germany there are times when there is a strong smell what they call “riecht nach Natur" meaning smell of nature. Agricultural land is sprayed with a mixture of urine and cow dung collected of cattle.

    ABROAD, adj. At war with savages and idiots. To be a Frenchman abroad is to be miserable; to be an American abroad is to make others miserable. ?(In your case becoming a French Canadian making Indians miserable) - Ambrose Bierce, The Enlarged Devil's Dictionary
  • Amit Singh
    By
    Amit Singh
    25.01.12 02:31 AM
    Indians are racist. I am in India these days. Came back home thinking i will love the smell of my home country. But i am not loving it anymore. People from Northen and Eastern part of India are considered to be some scar on the society. At Indira Ghandhi International Airport, New Delhi, i aciidently bumped into an Indian and he said are you a F*****g Bihari? and yes, I belong to Jamshedpur, Bihar. It hurt me bad, back in Montreal i was always respected by white people, they say Namaste when they see me, but being treted like an animal back in India made me relize that I am never coming back here. Because i was not only treted like that at the airport, such instances occured every now and then.
  • The NRI
    By
    The NRI
    24.01.12 10:56 PM
    @Mohit - the site is indeed moderated. We are very reluctant censors and do not shy away from allowing our readers to passionately debate controversial matters, and for that reason we often allow in comments that might offend other readers.

    However, on this occasion you were right to bring this latest comment to our attention.

    @Lindo - your comments are disgraceful. What is a black man living in a country that was once ruled by a white racist minority, making such deliberately offensive comments about another race.

    More importantly, what is such a person doing wasting their time reading and making comments on a site dedicated to Indians. Most of our Indian readers are not of the South African variety. They are the other ones - you know, the dirty smelly ones. So you are best off wasting your time elsewhere. Like on a site for black Africans or racist bigots.
  • SJC
    By
    SJC
    24.01.12 08:41 PM
    im not going to deny the racism, overt and not, of indians, but indians also have ot be one of the most intra-racist and self hating people around. i dont know if this is just what happens after different eras of invasion, but much as we criticise and like to look down on others (but to be fair, which group DOESNT do this?), we do it to ourselves to a pretty bad level too. indians being racist to others needs to be criticised, but maybe self hatred does too.
  • Mohit Gupta
    By
    Mohit Gupta
    24.01.12 08:19 PM
    From the above post of Lindo it is not clear which race or nationality is racist or not but a CERTAIN LINDO is actually RACIST BIG TIME..

    I wonder how these type of nasty comments are being allowed to post on this great website..

    Shouldn't this site be moderated, Mr TYS ?

    What do you think..?????
  • Lindo
    By
    Lindo
    24.01.12 07:11 PM
    Lol this makes me laugh a lot... @clan I completely understand... I'm African, literally black. I live in South Africa and we do have different races and cultures including whites and indians... So I wanted to say indians 4rm india r seen 2 b d worst racist bt in SA indians in Durban r racist. That's bcoz indians 4rm india settle thr a lot makn d city dirty n stinky coz they really smell, bt nt south african born indians, sumhow they r very dif 4rm indians. For a fact Africans don't stink, usually north africans stink, places like nigeria n libia. I have plenty south african indians n they r nt lyk indians, infact they r influenced mostly by d black race. Even tho they r nt seen 2 b blk they r nt badly treated. Indians in SA dislyk wyt ppl coz during apartheid (u'll can search it up n c wt it is) we were all called blk by wyt ppl. The blk, coloured (mixed race), indians, chinese, Japanese n so on were all called blk. Now only Afrikaaners r really racist, they r wyt ppl wu speak afrikaans while d otha wyt race, english, greek n so on r nt so bad.. Indians in india r racist n 4 a fact, no race is really interested in all of u'll.. U'r considered d last typical race 2 b thot of... I'm sorry if I offend u, it's jus fact
  • Mohit Gupta
    By
    Mohit Gupta
    21.01.12 12:03 PM
    TYS , ( I am in form today :) )

    "if economic and political power was on our side, where is ur guarentee tht u and i wudnt do the same?….the discrimination is a real part of our psychology…it exists as part of our nature…maybe excepting it , will lead to an understanding."

    COME ON ! Indian for most part of its history WAS an economic and political power and we still didn't do what some other nationalities did in their country.you would appreciate following link..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_India

    And how could you argue just for the sake of argument. You are throwing a hypothetical question like -WHAT IF ..
    to confroant WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED .. this is not logical argument..

    Can I equate with you a Rapist ? And when you object , should I throw a hypothetical question like what what if you were drunk or the girl was irresistible or if she was giving signals ? No .. these are hypothetical and illogical question and not benefiting your point.
  • Mohit Gupta
    By
    Mohit Gupta
    21.01.12 11:54 AM
    Alungile and ?Love,

    Indians don't think they are white. If that was correct assumption then why would they be using fairness-cream? Isn't it contradicting point of views of urs that o n one hand you are saying Indians think they are white and on the other hand you say that use whitening cream. That is contradictory.

    If Indians think they are white why would they use fairness cream? think about it..

    Second think is that there is difference in using fairness cream and licking some white ass..

    Every culture in the world has different Idea of BEAUTY. And in India, even before any white person came in to this Land of Snake-charmers, people always appreciated fair color more than brown or black in terms of PHYSICAL BEAUTY only. But in noway being black would come in to the way of your living a peaceful and respectful life. So Indian idea of beauty was devised much before the invention of word 'RACISM'..

    Another thing is that Indian don't want to become WHITE. They just want to become FAIR. Ask any Indian women if she want to be fair like Aishwarya Rai and Kareena Kapoor or Some western white-beauty like Angelina jolie, latetia casta , gisele bundchen who have freckles on their skin, and YOU ALL WOULD GET YOUR ANSWER..

    If Indians are racist, damn every other nationality in the world can be called GROUP OF HITLER.
  • Mohit Gupta
    By
    Mohit Gupta
    21.01.12 11:41 AM
    TYS ,

    "I mean, we have not invaded any country for the last 100,000 years. Of course this might have been primarily due to the fact that it took a lot of invasion in the first place to create India. Before that we were busy fighting each other. So it’s more or less a chicken and egg thing."

    Do you have any written evidence to support your claim? India as a country or region , didn't invade any country. That is a truth. But is that anything great ? No .. but still its a truth..
  • alex
    By
    alex
    21.01.12 07:33 AM
    I live in London.

    Many punjabi girls here simply do not communicate with guys, indian or white.

    And forming gettos does little to be accepted by others :D

    I am white :D

    I think Indian culture was once great now its hmm :D
  • ? Love
    By
    ? Love
    18.01.12 10:07 PM
    Indians "DO" think they are White.. But they are too DARK to pass! , Whites look at them as being Less than.. No matter how much education, job classification, money, degrees, no matter how much "make my skin White" cream Indians use, White people will always view Indians as a race of people that are"BENEATH them
  • alungile
    By
    alungile
    18.01.12 06:15 PM
    I think I don't like indians ,they think they are white offwhich they are not and I know they don't know too that in whih group they belong ,I don't see anything special about being an indian . Am an indian but I hate the wAy they think
  • tys
    By
    tys
    01.01.12 08:07 PM
    @anganna: i believe u are implying the prevalent feeling of us and them which we sometimes find with ourselves in our own countries...but i think most of that is fanned by scrupulous people for their own benefits and is being carried forth by the mass that cant think on their own.....the inability to really look within ourselves and recognize the source or even the traces of what we believe we fight against is a major irritant ... it makes u want to slap ur forehead and say : really? u think!!

    @Mohit Gupta : yep. I have to agree. Total double standards. I cant explain that one to u but what i wrote then has no relevance to me anymore...so when i reply to a comment , it is coming from another frame..another instant...so it all seems contradictory somehow..like that not being able to step into the same river twice kinda thing..iam sorry if it seems confusing..

    but mohit what i wud like to point out still, i believe, remains the same...the ability to differentiate exist within us...degrees may vary but i believe that can also be attributed to lack of expression oppurtunity...our communal riots are witness to what iam talking abt...none of us are free of this...all iam asking is , can we recognize it within ourselves?..if so, its a great thing, becoz u can watch out for it when it emerges...u will recognize it and tame it...that i think is all we can do...

    we really cant change our nature...only choose lesser , society induced and affirmed morals that works for ourselves.

    so it doesnt matter that we dont hurt or oppress right now in the name of color ( but we do...oh yes we do), will we still do so, if we can?
  • Mohit Gupta
    By
    Mohit Gupta
    01.01.12 01:41 PM
    I AGREE with INDIAAN.

    tys is having double standards.He is hell bent on proving that Indian are RACIST but is enlightened enough not to see what 'civilized' countries have done and are still doing in modern world.

    I can only laugh at Angana's assumption that because Indians stare each other they are 'Racist'..

    I think most people here need a extensive study of history and prevalence of Racism,
  • Angana
    By
    Angana
    31.12.11 08:51 PM
    Racism exists at every nook and corner of India. (maybe outside India as well by rt now that's not what m talking abt). Its funny to see how they stare at people who doesn't look like the ones from Mumbai or Delhi. And ppl in this country are still gonna deny that racism exists in here. Accept the truth and you will look more sensible to people. U deny what's the truth, its just u ppl who look insecure n stupid. Like seriously, nobody is that dumb that they won't realize whats going on around them .
  • tys
    By
    tys
    23.10.11 07:21 PM
    is there really a white economical model conspiracy that is aimed at keeping blacks poor?

    iam not proficient enough in politics or in economy or even in history to validate or even argue on this point.

    but what you pointed out seems more like a country protecting their own interest rather than a race issue..every country seems to do that...economy is driven by you scratch my back and i will scratch yours. ...anyone who doesnt play by that rule tends to get sidelined...forget economy, it happens in everyday life around us...everything that weee in the marco level is just a magnification of the micro level..

    i dont want to patronize blacks neither do i want to be a white apologist...but i really feel that the intentions we see behind an action is more or less dictated by our own perceptions...

    racism do exist but the truth is even i feel its on the decline...world has become too small...we can identify with the pain , happiness or hunger of a person who lives thousands of miles away..color of the skin will become such a stupid thing to be concerned about...its too silly a difference...so is religion ,countries , genders and sexuality but i guess that will take a lil bit longer...

    but we will get there...if we manage to stick around longer
  • 'Indiaaan'
    By
    'Indiaaan'
    23.10.11 12:32 PM
    ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

    I meant against the current white economic model which forces black people into being poor people. Something that causes racism from other races because an underlying economic penalty is imposed if any solidarity is shown.

    Rather than admitting that they enforce this process–they try to justify it by trying to link a biological phenotype that is lacking in whites with rights to rule.

    White people are just another race and like I said, Indians don’t see that as a reason to hurt or oppress them.
  • tys
    By
    tys
    22.10.11 09:43 PM
    @indiaan : as an indian, i dont think i will go to war with anyone over the color of their skin...but i guess thats the point you were trying to make.

    but in regards to the caste system, i think the initial reasons were for the working of the society , clearly demarking people according to their skills..since we are dealing with people and people , by their nature has a tendency to hold onto power and also to ensure the same for their own, converted skill based castism into a heriditary castism...

    you are right, all our mythology shows that people could raise above caste and become rulers, rishis, even warriors...somewhere along the line things became rigid...the permeability was seen as a threat and was successfully contained...

    untill gandhi...

    the beauty of india was that in a gap of less than 100 years we have removed shackles that we have worn for centuries...and we continue to do so...it was not something we were forced to do, rather we somehow seem to have recognized the stupidity in it and dispersed it through understanding ... you cannot change unless from within...

    but thru out we have had the need to be shown our ways...otherwise i feel we tend to be comfortable in our ways, even when it is cruel to another...we have the ability, but in a lot of ways we are like hanuman..not seeing our potential unless it is told to us...

    we are a nation made of huggers...we hugged and made everyone who came to these shores ours...somewhere we have stopped doing that...now we seem to want identity; in the process we risk losing our biggest identity...we hold things that had no relevance to us once, things like religions, morals, dogmas, prejudices...these were all private things, now it governs us...

    i dont believe in the sins of the fathers...i dont believe that anyone should be held responsible for what their fathers did...you can only hold a man accountable for his own actions...

    otherwise, you too are being what you say you are against
  • 'Indiaaan'
    By
    'Indiaaan'
    22.10.11 03:34 PM
    Indians don’t hate black people, they cant understand them, why forgive white people? Why not go to war with them? Indians would stand with you. That is a fact.

    Non violence was a strategy to highlight how uncivilized the whites were–they had and have internalized the concept as something innate about themselves in order to hide from the butchery that they commit on other peoples. They left India rather than admit to themselves that they are uncivilized. They left and continued to butcher in private indirect ways, because still they cannot admit the scale of the wrong they do.

    Look at what they are doing in the middle east and Africa–’freedom’ missions? They killed half a million Iraqi children in order to maintain their ‘civilized’ ways. Hide and seek, I wonder if God will see it that way.

    Indians do believe in Race–they believed in race before other peoples had even conceptualized the concept. The difference is that they don’t see that as a reason to hurt and enslave other people like the whites do.

    They don’t hate Black people, they think they are another race, just like the whites are another race. Race is not something Indians are against, it is wielding economics/culture as tool for oppression.

    Yeah they had/have castism–but what they don’t teach you in western history books is that the lowest castes were often the rulers, they were wealthy, prosperous. Castism was based on religious purity–the highest castes were poor–most learned people were poor, they didn’t need material wealth, they were enlightened.

    It was only after the Whites justified their occupation of India using skin colour as a biological indicator, current and historic (making up fictional history, something they continue today) of who holds wealth/power did the current abuses/corruptions enter into Indian thought.

    As for Clan–I am sorry that you are treated the way you are, I am sorry that to your family members you being black is an indication of how much you will be bared from wealth and opportunities, and of them if they continue to be associated with you. I am sorry–but Indians didn’t make the current economic models, Indians didn’t ban religious learning of science and mathematics, martial arts, philosophy in places of worship. Indians didn’t enslave your ancestors so that they could be turned into farm animals. No, Indians didn’t do any of this–but I am sorry.
  • 'Indiaaan'
    By
    'Indiaaan'
    22.10.11 12:33 PM
    Nor do I.
  • A Singh
    By
    A Singh
    14.10.11 05:23 AM
    @Clan - as an Indian (well NRI) I can confirm that Indians (particularly older generation) harbour racist attitudes towards black people while kissing up to white people. However, I am reluctant to defend you because of your first comment on this thread. You say an Air India plane stunk of curry but also that you love curry?? And that there was a strong smell of body odour. Do you know this is also a general stereotype held about black people? Have you been on any African airlines? You say you once visited India. Then you seem to suggest you are from India ("we left because...) at the same time suggesting your father is Pakistani.

    There are some serious issues that can be debated here but you are not coming across as a serious person, more like a troll. The fact is that black people are the most discriminated race on earth. They face racism in all of Asia, and even regions like eastern Europe (from my personal experience) where ignorant locals believe in very outdated, inaccurate stereotypes. You are not helping your argument by making such sweeping statements about Indians yourself.

    If you want a serious discussion on the subject cut the crap and you might get one. Racism is complicated. On the subject, as a Londoner I have personally witnessed deep mutual hostility and suspicion between the West Indian and West African community. I know that in the Caribbean darker skinned blacks are discriminated in favour of those with lighter skin for jobs that involve dealing with the public. Countries like Nigeria rival countries like india for sales of skin lightening cream. China, and India to a lesser extent, are milking Africa for financial gain. Also in this group are African leaders and officials. If you are not aware, they are black.
  • Clan
    By
    Clan
    14.10.11 02:15 AM
    Harry first of all let me apologize... I Hate no one..if I hate Indians I am hating myself.. But I can't seem to understand why.. I am bi racial.part Indian part Black but I'm only accepted by Blacks... Indians think I'm black and treat me shamefully ... But when I'm with my Dad (Pakistani) things change I get smiles... Even my own family members treat me and my sister like we have a disease or something... It REALLY REALLY hurts...BADLY.. Again I apologize if I offended anyone it was not meant to be this way...
  • tys
    By
    tys
    14.10.11 01:57 AM
    @clan : u do have a point..u r having trouble expressing it becoz those capital letters come across as shout not ing ( cyber lingo, go figure)...

    iam not sure abt this but since u asked i can theorize, but dont take it at face value..
    whites, we are used to..mainly thru our history...so i guess the acknowledgement of whites may be due to that....most nri s I know tend to keep to their own crowd..they tend to create a mini india of their own...its a comfort thing...indians i think are very home bond..so what u perceive as unfriendliness may not be stemming from any other reason other than a relectance to acknowledge someone different from them..iam being extra kind here...benefit of doubt and other such things...

    u obviously have experienced it...and iam sorry abt that...but why are you so angry?...accuse indians of racism, by all means but when you do it as a racist, you lose the audience....

    i hope u get ur answers...i hope u make a lot of friends among us..

    but seriously, i hope someone answers u, becoz i have seen what u r talking abt...and its downright shameful...

    is it fear? is it ur color? is it ignorance? i dont know...

    anyone?
  • Clan
    By
    Clan
    14.10.11 01:53 AM
    We left INDIA because of THE RACISM MY FAMILY ENDURED...and what's Puzzles me is that INDIANS in the STATES ARE WORSE
  • Clan
    By
    Clan
    14.10.11 01:51 AM
    Never said didn't like Indians... My father is Pakistani...mother African American ! I just don't understand why INDIANS hate BLACK PEOPLE.. u can be BRITISH , AFRICAN, OR JUST DARK SKINNED.. INDIANS WILL STILL HATE U...why ....and why do they LOVE WHITE PEOPLE SO MUCH... I DON'T HATE INDIANS...I HATE WHAT THEY DO TO BLACK PEOPLE.... CAN U HEAR ME NOW
  • HARRY
    By
    HARRY
    14.10.11 01:20 AM
    I DONT LIVE IN USA . BUT I DON'T HATE ANY BODY . BUT ONE THING I DONT UNDERSTAND ABOUT YOU CLAN IS IF YOU DONT LIKE INDIANS WHY ARE YOU ON THIS SITE.?????? . I DONT LIKE MUSHROOMS I DONT GO EVEN NEAR IT . BUT AT LEAST I DONT BITCH ABOUT IT DUDE.!!!!!!!!!
  • Clan
    By
    Clan
    14.10.11 01:07 AM
    Im talking about AMERICA. How Indians treat Black people in AMERICA... I EAT CURRY ALSO LOVE IT AS A MATTER OF FACT... WHAT IM SAYING IS HOW RACIST INDIANS ARE TOWARDS BLACK PEOPLE IN AMERICA... AMERICA... White people who HATE blacks treat us BETTER than FOB Indians or even American Born INDIANS... that's what I'm saying...
  • HARRY
    By
    HARRY
    14.10.11 12:52 AM
    AND BY THE WAY NOT ALL INDIAN EAT CURRY WHERE I LIVE MORE WHITE PEOPLE EAT CURRY THEN INDIANS DO AND THIS IS FACT IN UK.
  • HARRY
    By
    HARRY
    14.10.11 12:49 AM
    PEOPLE CAN TELL WHEN YOU HAVE RISIST ATTITUDE AND THE WAY YOU BEHAVE TOWARD THEM AND IT'S NOT HARD TO SEE WHY ?
  • Clan
    By
    Clan
    14.10.11 12:37 AM
    I have read these posts...but one thing STILL puzzles me...Why do Indians treat African Americans so badly...in India and the US.....they treat BLACKS. WORSE than WHITES do... If I had a choice. I would deal with the WHITE man before having any DEALINGS with Indians.. And itS a shame since Indians and Blacks are minorities in this country (USA). I have Indian neighbors. Don't even speak to us.... BUT they smile and do the HEAD BOBBLE to every white person they see....and the white people in our neighborhood can't stand them... They call them CURRY Munchers ect..
  • HARRY
    By
    HARRY
    14.10.11 12:17 AM
    originaly in germany it all started with blue eyes and blonde hair and being better so it's not diffrent from rasism their for this had to be said and it's not to insult you in any way . this kind of can of worm should not be opened i think and hope what you said in the past post is true. HARRY
  • tys
    By
    tys
    13.10.11 11:58 PM
    @harry : i never called indians nazis...why do u compare racism with nazism? one is what showed the world to what extent you can go in the name of racism...one is a symptom, the other is full blown disease...

    when the symptom is there, u cannot say that it is minor so we will ignore it or live with it...but u , iam sure will agree that given a chance to manifest, it will come forth in its full glory...as we have seen in our country..

    i too am proud of our heritage, even though thats like saying that iam proud becoz my grandfather was good..

    u r rite when u say its like cancer...all i am saying is that we r not in a position to claim a moral high ground and i think its a dangerous trend to ignore it becoz it exist in 'acceptable' traces.

    and as for the personal attacks , i expected nothing lesser...

    thank you harry for your view ..i really do understand what u r saying and iam not disagreeing...infact the most beautiful insight was a comment from this person who called him/herself eurasian...if they are the future then we are fine...in the future this will be a non issue....technology and the shrinking world will make a differentiation due to race or color something from the past...

    harry, u know something? whenever someone points back and talks abt nazis, i keep thinking what were the other germans doing when hitler and his cornies were doing this?...to me, that part is scary...
  • HARRY
    By
    HARRY
    13.10.11 11:23 PM
    I have read your artical and also the comments posted on it. I can agree with the most of the things and also disagree with some of the things written by others.
    To me rasism is like cancer, i will explain later but first regarding the feed back . if you play with snake you will be bitten and you knew it will happen.
    Going back to rasism to most it is true , that it involves violence and tortures of people who are diffrent to them . People who commit this act they don't need reason and don't care what the civilised will think . Nazi's did this when they kill 6 Million jews because they were diffrent from them and this kind of people should never be compared to people like us because WE ARE NO WAY LIKE THEM , THATS WHY PEOPLE ARE SWEARING TO YOU BECAUSE YOU LABELED THEM SAME . YOU HAVE RIGHT TO AN OPINION BUT NOT THIS KIND.
    I have joked about kalas goras and all others but, I am no way like people who carry out violence on the indiffrence and i am proud to be INDIAN and if that makes me rasist in your opinion i dont give shit.
    People have written in their comment regarding standing in the line and shoved back . This happens when you go to clubs in the west when others are let in before you , that's power of money not rasism, at least poeple wont kill you for it in india and if you think it's still rasism you seen nothing yet.
    When i originaly said rasism is like cancer because there is no cure to this kind of hatered toward others, and poeple who have cancer of this kind cannot be cured and that's fact , and also this can be said about nazi's as well.
    You can call Indian's dirty rude pushy arrogent and all the others but never RASIST because we are no way like nazi's and history is proof of that in india and i know i speak for great majority . There are also great majority of people on face of this planet who also share same value and thinks this way and they are not indians.
    THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS I HATE ABOUT INDIA WHEN I GO BACK, LIKE RUBBISH , FILTH, CORUPTION AND OTHER THINGS BUT NO WAY I HATE INDIA IT SELF AND MY FELLOW INDIANS AND I AM PROUD OF THAT.
  • tys
    By
    tys
    11.08.11 06:21 PM
    @mohit : fair enough and i sincerely want you to be right.
  • Mohit Gupta
    By
    Mohit Gupta
    11.08.11 05:48 PM
    Tys

    Thanks for the link.I did actually read it.It was interesting.

    you said "technically theres only one race…the human race."

    But when I look into the various finding of scientist who worked on genes , race , etc then 'technically' , they came up with three Races namely Caucasian , Negroid and Mongoloid .

    Yeah , Morally we can say that there is only one race and that is Human.But when we say that , we are simply denying the existence of diversity in Humans and also in animals.We can't hide that evolution of these three races and their genes structure , bone structure is different from each other.

    What I would prefer that we recognize the difference in these races and respect all to create an environment of peace-full co-existence.

    Having said that I still don't believe that Indians are racist just because they call people by names based on the color of skin.
  • tys
    By
    tys
    11.08.11 10:40 AM
    @monita: theres a mallu saying that when the elephant walks, dogs will bark..it doesnt bother the elephant..patiende has nothing to do with it..respecting an opinion is something which i strive for...amidst all that rudeness, there are very valid opinions...sieving thru the muck to reach it can be annoying...becoz the instinctive defensiveness can rear its head and has to be subdued immediately..

    nevertheless thank you.

    i have felt that a civilized society is identified by its treatment to its women and children..when they feel safe, you know that its working..until then, we just need to keep on doing these introspections and corrections...

    this complacency based on inherited baggage like culture and traditions has its place...sure, we can be proud of it but its a gift/curse from the past..but each time there's a sexual crime, we bring up how we are the land of kamasutra is a bit of a joke...its like the best part of us are buried...today we seem to be unable to get beyond our indianess each time there's a criticism ..we get defensive...someone once told me that we shud observe ourself when we get defensive...its the truth/facts in the arguement that we do not want to face that causes the defensiveness...its like all we want to do is win the arguement , irrespective of the merits in another's opinion...

    no matter how much we try and deny it, the segregation still exist..it may not in the future if i go with what eurasian says...but i believe that by addressing it, we create a situation where we will have to acknowledge it and possibly see the stupidity in it...and stupidity is funny...if we can laugh at it , i think we can remedy it..

    monita, i personally think, most of the animosity i have faced was becoz iam using a public forum...u know how weary all indians are of washing our dirty linen in public...we r a private culture, though it has its merit, that has also been the reason why so much crap has been kept under a lid ...so the rudeness is to be accepted.
  • monita
    By
    monita
    10.08.11 10:57 AM
    tys, I admire your patience in replying to all the posters in spite of them being so rude.

    I see lot of us Indians gloating that India is a great nation because we have never colonized another nation.How many of us have ever questioned why it was so. The truth is that India consisted of 100's of small kingdoms, who were fighting with each other, invading each other for resources, land just the same way the British, Portugese, Spanish, Dutch and others were. None of the Indian rulers were powerful enough to invade far off countries. India was ruled mostly by foreign invaders- turks, moghuls,etc for almost a millenium before british invaded and ousted the moghuls, nawabs and others. Yes, a part of the reason of British success in doing so was also the stupidity, lack of foresightedness and selfishness of the Indian rulers back then. This is all history and should be accepted as it is. History is irreversible and the only thing we can do about it is to accept it rather than condemning the off-springs the generations of people for what their ancestors did.

    Coming to future, what I fail to understand is although we sneer at the white race for being racist, why do we Indians are mostly at awe of tall, white people who can speak English. Why do we mostly speak to each other in English although we know that our co- patriot can speak our language. I really don't know, why whenever an Indian was beaten up in Australia, it made top news and all the other incidents were not given any importance. Was India totally crime free? or all other type of crimes do not matter at all to Indians?

    I am a student in Australia. All the Australians I meet everyday are polite.It happens very rarely that an Australian pass a racist sort of comment. May be you can call it racism, but you know what I would rather prefer to handle this kind of racism than all kind of other isms that exist in India such as sexism, casteism, classism and all the ilk. Here I know that I can always claim my right as a citizen just like any other Australian, in India, I can not be so sure. When I am waiting in a line, I can be sure that I will be served my turn comes, in India, I can never be sure. If somebody richer than me or more powerful than me comes along, I am sure I will be pushed back.
  • tys
    By
    tys
    09.08.11 06:45 PM
    @gtoosphere : every nation has some sort of discrimination...iam of the opinion that patriotism is also a differentiation...an 'acceptable' one...
  • tys
    By
    tys
    09.08.11 06:43 PM
    @eurasian : u are the future...i do agree with u...most youngsters today are above these petty differences...iam so glad that u find these prejudices silly and archaic...it shud be...and it is...
  • tys
    By
    tys
    09.08.11 06:38 PM
    @mohit : a lil reading stuff for you :

    http://academic.udayton.edu/race/01race/racism03.htm

    It explains why rose by any other name will still remain a rose...racism, colourism, discrimination etc are all the same thing...technically theres only one race...the human race...so then according to you, what we see around us doesnt exist..u were not serious were u?...were u being sarcastic? if so, i missed it.
  • Mohit Gupta
    By
    Mohit Gupta
    09.08.11 05:24 PM
    What I don't understand from all the discussion here is that why people are relating race with 'color'.

    There are only three races in the world namely as CAUCASOID , MONGOLOID AND NEGROID.

    With in the CAUCASOID race , there are thousand different colors.With in Mongloloid race , there are also hundreds of colors and so is the case with 'NEGROID' ..

    The Indians "who" are being accused and "who" are accusing , both are ignorant what Racism is.

    Indians are simply not Racist.Because they simply don't even know what being a Racist is !
  • gtoosphere
    By
    gtoosphere
    09.08.11 03:16 PM
    It is a good article in the sense that you have spoken about the hypocrisy. I think it is natural to be racist or at least insensitive when you grow up in a closed society where everyone looks like you which most of us are.

    I have also heard of Indian students not being allowed in dance clubs in France if they're not accompanied by white people. The bouncers say "private party" even though everyone knows it is not.

    I agree that Indians are racist and discriminatory and we're also quite hypocritical about it. Well so are Japanese, Chinese and probably the rest of the world. We can do with a little sensitivity towards other shade of skins!
  • Euroasian
    By
    Euroasian
    09.08.11 12:40 PM
    Stop this nonsense!!!!!!!! people come on! we live in the 21st century!! racism is a thing of the past!! allright my mother was half british and my grandpa from my pop's side was german and guess what i'm still dark skinned and i don't give a cwap!! all right!! we are human we all started from africa and we might all look different but we are all the same! race does not exist!! and guess what even though i am only 17 i have had many white girlfriends and none of them care about the color of your skin or other cwap!! ok please we are human!! live together and live in peace!! please!!!!!! sheesh!! try inventing stuff and stop wasting your time on racism cause that's just a bunch of cow dung!!
  • tys
    By
    tys
    06.08.11 12:49 AM
    @mohit : we are again playing with words..the emotion behind a word when used can become a racist slur or just a joke between friends...we are again talking about degrees...at what stage does it become racist? only when blood is spilled or have shit shoved down the letter box or being threatened? we perhaps can catch it at its infancy if we are able to look at ourselves...

    i know that the term racism might seem a bit harsh since a lot of us see racism as an extreme reaction to differences...but a drop of poison in the milk or a ladle of it is just degrees...it is still racism..

    mohit, u are free to call me anything you want...i dont think i gave any indication that i had any problem with it..its still a free country ...now u need to tell me what cultural morality means...and who on earth wud want east to be west or north to be south?
  • Mohit gupta
    By
    Mohit gupta
    05.08.11 02:10 PM
    Mr Tys ,

    I would definitely agree with you that ANY KIND of segregation , intolerance , etc should not be allowed in our society.

    What I object is the terminology.
    "RACISM" is very very strong word and there is a very violent history about it.

    Mass-Murder , Lynching of Aborigines , KKK , Slave-Trade..

    Do you see any of it happening in India?

    Just because someone call someone a GORA and KALA , HE BECOMES A RACIST ?

    Come on ! Over-sensitivity ?
    My Elder brother's only name I know is KALU and I have been calling him by this name from last 29 years.ok

    Am I a racist ? Hell NO !

    I think , No , you would have got some India what I want to say.

    I don't agree with your assertion that..

    "We are placed correctly to be racist and get away with it."

    THAT IS SELF-HATRED !

    In whole of your post you have BLASTED INIDANS why shouldn't I call you India-Bashing-Machine.


    If you are free to call Indians RACIST , I think I am free to call you India-Bashing Machine ! Democrazy ? Yeah !

    "Intellectual-Liberal" are those who are desperate to adopt western standard of "Cultural-Morality" and to get recognition from Western People little realizing that EAST can not be WEST.
  • tys
    By
    tys
    05.08.11 01:20 PM
    @Mr.Mohit : No. I do not know what racism is. But I do know that is where one race harbors a belief that one is better than the other. I also know that this feeling of superiority of ones own being is an inherent one..it can express as racism, religious intolerance, caste difference, gender differences etc...the emotion that plays through it all is the same.. segregation, differentiation, us and them.

    I really do not know racism. I admit. As for being an Indian Bashing Machine; you bet. Sometimes it requires a slap to wake up people from deep slumber...lets just say that the 'intellectual liberals' ( what the hell is that?) mite be doing just that.

    not me though...i am just having some fun...too stupid to be an intellectual ( damn, had to even google the spelling)
  • tys
    By
    tys
    05.08.11 01:09 PM
    @CLAN : Ahhh...what do i say to you?... i am still at a loss to understand your anger at us..you seem to have used your experience with a few to paint a whole nation...that my friend brings you very close to being what you say you are not.

    who in your opinion has ever helped Africa? The large continent, with untold potentials, populated by one of the most beautiful,graceful and hardworking people, the birthplace of our species...if the day comes when Africa can come together and become one, it will change human history as we know it...who is stopping Africa?

    Know what i think? Its violence.

    no nation who has used violence to propagate itself has lasted long..violence only serves a few , so its bound to eat itself up in the long run..People like Mandela and Martin Luther King saw that...non violence too is a strategy...but a better one...Gandhi may have been an inspiration only because they saw that the formula actually worked...but i dont think neither Mandela nor Martin Luther King, wanted become Gandhis...they have chosen his strategy..because they care for their people...

    nobody can loot Africa without Africa's consent...Africa is stopped only by Africans and will be regained also by them.
  • tys
    By
    tys
    05.08.11 12:49 PM
    @TR : Calm down man..does it feel better now? i happen to agree with all the things you have hurled at me on a personal level, considering we have never met..u must be what i wud call a soul mate...actually i have been 'overseas' for the last 15 years..and i doubt that my illiteracy or my poor grammar forbids me from having an opinion..so just bear with me...i am in this for the long run...

    hope to hear more from you in the future..

    personally i do not care 2 bits how racists any other country is or to what degree their moronic sentiments go .. i am an Indian..i believe its better and easier to change our attitudes than to be complacent about the degree of our racism..and divert attentions else where..

    of course there are people belonging to different countries who plays the race card on a different level...so what do u propose we do, adapt that as our bench mark? that becoz they are doing it to us, a bit given that side is fine? ... where is the difference? is it not only in the degrees?

    why look else where for race riots when we have so many within our own country? isn't religious riots almost the same as us and them?...screw religions..its a lost cause...but take a look at the dalit issue..the kashmiri pundits issue...arent they all race issue? us and them?..

    when this is going on within, how can we look outside and condemn? honestly condemn?

    look , in the last 100 years, no nation has made the changes in their moral, cultural, religious, social being as this one has..we have broken away century old traditions when we felt that it wasn't right...someone had to point it out...but the action came from them..collectively...i have great respect for a nation who has always done introspection ...look at us...we may disagree but we are willing to listen..to a lot this may appear weak but this is strength...india has always been an assimilation...it has the cultural ability to absorb and make everything its own...but to believe that we can do no wrong is very stupid...

    what race are we?

    in midst of all our other differences, do we really believe that we are not all the same? Then why pretend like we do and become limited like the rest?

    just an opinion ...
  • Clan
    By
    Clan
    04.08.11 10:05 PM
    Who cares... India will destroy itself anyway... Now India and China trading with Africa... Poor Africa... They should never trust INDIA.. Mandela and Martin Luther King..should have done more to Investigate GANDHI.. Before using his non violence crap... GANDHI was a racist. Africa will be robbed by India...and will suffer for dealing with these thieves... INDIANS. U can't trust them at all. AFRICA IS IN TROUBLE
  • The NRI
    By
    The NRI
    04.08.11 02:08 PM
    @TR - your comments were allowed in at the request of the author. I can tell you, if it was just my decision they would not have been.

    You criticise other's grammar but you are unable to articulate your own views without resorting to swearing.

    The next comments like these will be deleted regardless of the author's opinion.
  • Mohit gupta
    By
    Mohit gupta
    04.08.11 06:06 AM
    Mr whatever ,

    Do you even know what "RACISM" is?
    Harmless personal preference for white color is not racism.

    You have to go to South Africa and America to know what Racism actually is.

    Ask Natives of Australia and America what racism is .

    Yeah , it is fashion now a days to bash India. And so called "Intellectual-Liberals" have become , I must say , INDIA-BASHING-MACHINE.

    Carry on !
  • TR
    By
    TR
    03.08.11 11:07 PM
    Dear illiterate chimp writer of the article:

    Google the following: race riots.

    Oh and don't you dare compare it to riots in India like a f**king idiot.
  • TR
    By
    TR
    03.08.11 11:05 PM
    Wow this illiterate retard who can't even respond with proper grammar has written the article?

    You dumbf**k

    Clan's racism is in no way respectful you dumb slave minded chutiya, the fact that you chose to reply to a racist like that tell me you're f**king retarded.

    Shut the f**k up and get the f**k out.

    Oh and pretty shit article and did you actually read what 'Perhaps' wrote? or did your stupid semi-illiterate mind just scan the post?

    Read up on race riots to know what real racism means you effing slow-witted dumbf**k.

    How long have you been overseas? Five months?

    Idiotic urban Indian.
  • tys
    By
    tys
    02.08.11 10:49 AM
    @clan : ohhhh...i take it you wont be visiting anymore...why did u go there in the first place?...not a single gud thing?..what really happened?..for a cloistered person, india can be a rude awakening...its more or less still happening in certain areas and has gone beyond in some...

    i guess we are more or less immune to what you speak of..thing is , eventhough your tone seems to indicate that u mite be seeking a confrontation ( but u can never put ur faith on a written tone), i have to agree that from ur perspective as a visitor, ur concerns are very valid...

    but normally a visitor is already to some extent prepared for the places they visit..

    and now that the world is a lot smaller, and we all live in a glass house, i think its only fair that our 'flaws' are aired , which will perhaps motivate us to take actions on some of the things u hightlited..

    but iam afraid the curry smell will remain...u will just have to get used to that..
  • Clan
    By
    Clan
    02.08.11 10:00 AM
    Indians are a filthy lot... Look at the way they live.. I have visited India and it is far worse than any place I have EVER visited.. People defecating and urinating IN THE STREETS.. so much trash and filth.. Spitting PAN on the sidewalks of the TAJ MAHAL.. I was afraid to use the toilets the SMELL. Was horrible.. Everywhere we went was FILTHY SMELLY.. it started when we first got on the plane..AIR INDIA.. these Indians trash every place they go...the plane stank of CURRY AND BODY ODOR...horrible..smelled like a STABLE..HORRIBLE PEOPLE
  • tys
    By
    tys
    29.07.11 11:26 AM
    @clan: what makes u say that? could you please elaborate on that? I dont know every indian personally, but i have not met that many within the limited exposure that i have who really is consumed with self hate...hence the question...becoz if u are right, then i shud look at myself in a different light...
  • tys
    By
    tys
    29.07.11 11:20 AM
    @alfred: i missed ur comment..u r probably rite...truth is i have not faced racism..or maybe i havent realized its been aimed it me..it helps to be dense .. but u r rite...there is a tendency among all people to be comfortable with similars and suspicious towards others..perhaps in later years this will change...as the world becomes small, were people interact at all levels, these differences , perhaps,will disappear..as long as talk about it...think about it...maybe we will one day see beyond it..who know?
  • Clan
    By
    Clan
    29.07.11 03:56 AM
    Indians ARE VERY RACIST..so full of self hate.. They hate themselves so much that it radiates to others... THEY DON'T EVEN LIKE INDIANS... The only people that they love are WHITE PEOPLE... And WHITES CAN'T STAND them...
  • Alfred Jones
    By
    Alfred Jones
    11.06.11 07:13 PM
    Tys,

    Somewhere in all the sarcasm and the poking-fun-at-ourselves shtick, I'm guessing the main point of the piece was to point out the absurdity of Indians' hypersensitivity to rascism when we're the targets while we ourselves are appallingly rascist with respect to each other and to foreign visitors yes?

    I'm yet to visit a country that doesn't have some share of its citizenry expressing petty/vulgar/lewd prejudice at "outsiders". That said, I don't think Indians are any more rascist than our peers in the west. For sure, the *mechanics* and *process* of our rascism could be different, e.g. the prolonged stare, the sideways whisper, the lewd grin etc. But the underlying sentiment that drives that sort of thing is like potatoes my friend, i.e. to be found e.v.e.r.y.w.h.e.r.e. Overall, I think Indians are a pretty welcoming and friendly lot. But we're not perfect and neither is anyone else. (For every western visitor who has a nasty story to tell of Indian prejudice, you'll find a corresponding immigrant somewhere in the west with an equally nasty experience. All of which doesn't mean we ought not to write and/or talk about this. This subject deserves to be explored just as much as anything else.)

    But you're quite right, we do have quite a bit of "white idealization" and reverse rascism in India. I've been on the receiving end of it myself - in a business meeting no less. And it is mahaa aggravating as hell!

    ~alfred
  • tys
    By
    tys
    09.06.11 08:39 PM
    did i just rename myself? Sorry shiv, tht was me...sometimes empathy can lead to loss of ur own identity...but here its just due to too many pegs
  • shiv
    By
    shiv
    09.06.11 12:38 PM
    shiv : u think so too, dont u?...i know as a nation we have our plus points, so does the rest but this ingrained ability in us to segregate is fantastic...maybe its a cultural baggage that we inherit...hopefully we have managed to put a hole in it so that the future generations, thankfully will have an empty sack to carry...

    but iam a great believer that the first sign to healing is acceptance...comes from all that AA meetings :)

    forgive the vitriol...cant do much abt that...but as u know, pouring water over that will only cause an explosive reaction...
  • shiv vasisht
    By
    shiv vasisht
    09.06.11 03:01 AM
    Due respects to Perhaps.

    Indians ARE racist. Violence apart, even politeness towards a person of another colour is racism, isn't it? We are as guilty as any other violent racist in terms of our pacific outlook. And we keep this pacifism for goras or kalas, but the violence towards our own mallus or sardars.

    Enough said!

    Great post, but I would have kept it less vitriolic!

    Best!
  • tys
    By
    tys
    07.06.11 12:23 AM
    u didnt get the sarcasm?!!! man, iam losing my touch....get away frm me...u wrecked my arrogent confidence...

    Wonder if there any market for hate spewing indians? Amar? Anyone listening?

    Theres only one thing scarier than white washed asians, its ......nope, cant think of anything else.
  • misternoname
    By
    misternoname
    06.06.11 11:14 PM
    ive not heard malabri before, so i dont know if thats a bad term or not. i did get the sarcasm elsewhere though so i dont think im totally humourless! :)

    could be wrong about the self hatred thing, im a bit paranoid about asians being 'whitewashed' lol.
  • tys
    By
    tys
    06.06.11 10:33 PM
    i cud b wrong but i feel tht the source of racism comes frm the inherent tendency in societies to create an us and them....so any kind of differentiation, in my book is racism...the degrees of racism met out is a variable...it depends on a lot
    of things...our communal riot is one example wht

    we r capable of....i hve seen and experienced ragging becoz of being a fresher..which bordered on torture...

    I cant talk abt others....there will b others to do tht...but i can talk abt us, becoz iam part of this us...

    We cannot contemplate on a solution untill we acccept, understand and dissapiate this from ourselves...
    .
    I really appreciate ur comment..u pointed out one thing which is very true in my post...the point made comes across as dont complain abt it if u r a cause of it....but wht else can one do, other thn correcting ones own thinking and perception?...iam not a great beliver of any instant simultaneous expansion of human conciousness but i do believe tht a simple truth can cause some sort of an internal examination in some individual...

    U got a indian self hate vibe?! Damn. Tht was my brand of sarcasm...now i will hve to get back to drawing board and reinvent imself....but thnks for pointing it out.

    The term chinky is the derogatory term i have heard been used to describe our east indian brothers and sisters...u missed the context...tht was classic sarcasm...( but u thought malabari is cool?)....:)
  • misternoname
    By
    misternoname
    06.06.11 08:44 PM
    brave and interesting article, but merely saying well we're racist, so lets stop complaining about racism from others, is a bit simplistic (and racism between indians and racism towards non indians are two different things really).

    i dont think ive ever heard indians play 'weve been colonised so that gives me a right to be racist' card, i think racism is just ingrained into our psyche due to how we are racist towards each other (and racism towards each other/diff groups in india is actually prob far worse than towards blacks/whites if im honest).

    its disgusting generally - most indians dont have that western middle class awareness that they shouldnt be saying certain things. they dont think logically about how they express their prejudices. but this is the same across the board. 2nd/3rd gen immigrants of all backgrounds (not just asian) treat all new immigrants the same as white people did/do. but this kind of hypocrisy isnt limited to indians, you think black/chinese/whoever people arent the same? trust me, they are. a relative of mine says he used to get beaten up for being asian in africa, and then again in england! (do people get beaten up for being white or black in india, i dont know).

    weirdly, even though im in favour of self critique and think indians are far too complacent about their own racism, the main vibe i got from this piece was classic indian self-hatred, not sure why.

    ps - maybe ive missed the context but using the word 'chinkies' really is not cool at all. kind of ironic to print that in light of what this piece is about.
  • Indianhomemaker
    By
    Indianhomemaker
    05.06.11 01:07 PM
    Very well written post. I think it indicates an inferiority complex, because one also hears arguments like, "Even the 'Westerners' love Yoga/sari/henna/bharatnatyam/etc."
  • Singh
    By
    Singh
    05.06.11 12:07 AM
    Dear "Perhaps", you have got to be kidding me?! Some people are really that ignorant? Can someone tell me if in the entire history of mankind, anybody even comes close to persecuting, oppressing other human beings as much as one society has? Yes I am talking about the last five thousand years, such severe discrimination, persecution and oppression of it's indigenous people, low caste shudras, tribals and religious minorities?

    I can't believe that you think that westerners are worse than Indians. HA!!! The brutalities being committed even today come nowhere close to anything in the western world. The West is heaven compared to India. Ever wonder, how many of dalits, shudras, chandals, present day tribals or so called Naxals, Dravidians, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Nagas, Mizos, Assamese, Tamils, Manipuris, Sikkimites. etc. were or are being oppressed?

    Ever wondered why Amnesty International is still not allowed in many states of India, in this day and age? I can go on and on, but open your eyes and do some research. I love west and it is indeed the best. Some people are really ignorant!
  • Farida
    By
    Farida
    04.06.11 10:06 PM
    I am not sure how to respond to this post. Like everything is this world, India has its negative and positive sides. After meeting many people and being out of India, I have realized we are not on the worse side of the racism.
  • Perhaps
    By
    Perhaps
    04.06.11 02:45 PM
    Well, what about the violent attacks on Indian students in Australia? Those only happened in the last few years. I don't see you as a jackbooted thug at all, I am just trying to explain to you what real racism is. What about the endemic, institutionalized racism against blacks in America (Katrina response for example). With all due respect to you, I think your experience as someone who is not of colour, (pun) colours your outlook. You can never hope to understand the situation.

    Even now, you have people like Merkel and Cameron saying that multiculturalism has failed. How does that make immigrants who have settled in those countries for decades feel? You can never understand that. Or in New Zealand where people openly question on prime time television shows whether the governor general is a New Zealander or not (just because he happens to be Indian) or, again on prime time television, laughs at the name of an Indian because it sounds like an expletive in English.

    Racism is not just racism. I would bet that Indians accepted you in a much more big hearted way than you would experience as an immigrant in Europe. They may have a bit of a dig and a laugh but it doesn't really mean anything and the intent is not violent or abusive.

    As for the broader point that you have to be the change you wish to see in the world, I wholeheartedly agree. So, on that note, since I don't wish to bring more division into the world, I will finish there and speak no more about it.

    Peace and unity to all!
  • Barnaby Haszard Morris
    By
    Barnaby Haszard Morris
    04.06.11 12:13 PM
    Perhaps, all the examples you gave of white racism are things that the vast majority of white people wouldn't do, or even consider, nowadays. That they have happened does not tar all of white society. (But actually, if you've been seeing me this whole time as a skinhead Nazi thug... that would explain a lot!)

    Racism is racism - though violent racism occupies a different sphere for sure - and I agree with tys that acknowledging one's own racism is a mature and responsible first step to overcoming it. No need to chastise oneself for a pretty hard-wired 'fear of the unknown' response. Instead, an objective view makes it a lot easier to do something about it.
  • tys
    By
    tys
    03.06.11 02:44 PM
    @perhaps: u make very valid points...but does tht still make it ok for us to expect equal treatment whn we ourselves dont seem to be capable of meting it out....if economic and political power was on our side, where is ur guarentee tht u and i wudnt do the same?....the discrimination is a real part of our psychology...it exists as part of our nature...maybe excepting it , will lead to an understanding.

    U r rite, i do not know...iam merely excepting it...how can i dare to berate whn i too am guilty? Whn i can find excuses for my behaviour and actions and words, imagine wht i wud hve been if i was in a position of power?

    U made excellant points...but does tht excuse us? More than tht, how do we stop ourselves....change is an individual thing...
  • Perhaps
    By
    Perhaps
    03.06.11 12:24 PM
    Ah the old classic - accuse the ethnic minority of being racist when they dare to mention race. Come on, you can do better than that!

    Firstly, Indians may joke and laugh and whatever but you won't find them shouting racial slurs and epithets as you walk down the street with your family with the promised threat of violence. You won't find them putting sh** through your letterbox or beating the cr** out of you while shouting nazi slogans and wearing jackboots.

    You won't find them colonozing other countries through violence, piracy and murder. Or attemtpting to wipe out (Aborigines in Australia or Maoris in new Zealand or Native Americans in America). Or enslaving, lynching and generally trying to destroy another race (black people in America - some would say it still goes on today, just in a subtler fashion)

    I really think you might want to examine what real racism is. A few jokes and a couple of comments here or there is nothing compared to the violent, aggressive racism that the west has perpetuated for centuries.

    Another point that seems to escape most people as it is a subtle one, is that most of the economic, military and political power rests in the west and therefore the rest of the world in general is somewhat subjugated even now, and therefore when you have all the power it is more important not be racist as you actually have the power to do something about it. If the rest of the world makes a few comments here or there they are doing it from a position of weakness.

    So, why don't you think a little bit more before you opine on these matters. It is clear that you don't really have a clue what you are talking about.
  • Singh
    By
    Singh
    03.06.11 03:20 AM
    My respect for this journal and the writer has just multiplied many times!!! Thank you so very much for daring to publish the truth!!! Long Live your website!
  • tys
    By
    tys
    03.06.11 01:38 AM
    @susmita : and iam proud of u for seeing tht..thnk u for tht.
  • Susmita
    By
    Susmita
    02.06.11 11:57 PM
    I like your unabashed irreverence towards our collective double standards. It was a good read.

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